Moderators DennisD Posted June 7, 2011 Moderators Share Posted June 7, 2011 It had to happen eventually, and after 6 years of hammering, my HD is waving the white flag. Restored a recent Image to a spare Hard Drive today. This spare is 100% sound but it makes an occasional creaky sound which is a little disconcerting. So it's a new hard drive required, and unfortunately it's IDE, which means a few quid to shell out over and above the cost of a SATA drive. Where would you guys recommend for an online purchase as my local PCWorld has zilch in way of IDE drives. The best I've sourced so far is a 160gb Western Digital (big enough for me for a system drive) from Overclockers UK ... http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=HD-005-WD&groupid=701&catid=14&subcat=59 I haven't used them before, but they seem to be very competitive and carry a good name. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhawk Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 I've used Scan in the past they've always been reliable with their deliveries - http://www.scan.co.uk/shop/computer-hardware/all/hard-drives-int/ide-%28pata%29-40gb-200gb Richard S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators hazelnut Posted June 7, 2011 Moderators Share Posted June 7, 2011 Doesn't look a bad price that Dennis. I've heard of them, and have a friend who has used them, but I've not dealt with them myself. Support contact https://support.ccleaner.com/s/contact-form?language=en_US&form=general or support@ccleaner.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators DennisD Posted June 7, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted June 7, 2011 I contacted them earlier hazel about delivery times as I'm off down south again at the weekend, and I had a very polite reply a very quick 10 minutes later. They do seem to be a polished outfit. @ Richard: Cheers Richard, another good source to bookmark. I haven't heard of them and my search didn't pop their name up either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasgandy Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Have you considered an IDE to SATA connector? I have used one of these with no issues, cost me $19.00 AUS. Always With Kind RegardsTasgandy"one is never too old to listen & learn" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators DennisD Posted June 8, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted June 8, 2011 I have thought of that, but I've been led to believe that there could be reduced performance type problems with the setup. I would be ecstatic to be proved wrong, as SATA drives are a fraction the price of an equivalent PATA/IDE, and the greater choice is also a huge plus. Thanks for the info and link. A bit more research on that methinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Andavari Posted June 8, 2011 Moderators Share Posted June 8, 2011 I hope you find an hdd you like. Over the past three months I've replaced two IDE DVD burner drives which made choosing very easy since they were in limited supply and variation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators DennisD Posted June 8, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted June 8, 2011 I'll probably go for a Western Digital IDE, simply because I have a WD external USB hard drive, and I'm impressed with the build quality etc.. A question for you guys .. What does this mean exactly in the BIOS, with SATA drives in mind.? I've googled, but nothing that really explains it exactly has popped up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhawk Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 It looks like your motherboard already supports SATA 2 x hard drives. Even if you was able to install a SATA hard drive you couldn't use your existing backup because it lacks the RAID drivers. Do you have the motherboard model number or BIOS rev from the setup?? Richard S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators DennisD Posted June 8, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted June 8, 2011 It looks like your motherboard already supports SATA 2 x hard drives. Even if you was able to install a SATA hard drive you couldn't use your existing backup because it lacks the RAID drivers. Do you have the motherboard model number or BIOS rev from the setup?? Richard S. I'm assuming that means the backup Image of my "IDE" System Drive won't restore to a "SATA" drive? The details you request Richard, compliments of Speccy ... Appreciate your input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhawk Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 If the information from Speccy is correct then yes your motherboard does support SATA. For XP to boot from SATA it needs the raid drives provided by your motherboard manufacturer which normally happens during the XP setup process. It maybe possible to incorporate the drivers with your IDE drive, backup to an image and then restore to SATA however I've never attempted such a thing. Unless you have the original XP install CD + raid drivers you might as well play it safe and buy a replacement IDE drive for a few extra quid. http://www.motherboardpoint.com/add-sata-driver-after-xp-installed-is7-v-t4043.html Richard S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators DennisD Posted June 9, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted June 9, 2011 After reading the stuff in that link, I'm inclined to agree with you Richard. Just as a point of interest, there are a couple of "capped" connections inside my desktop case I didn't know the purpose of, but after googling "SATA Connection" images, I do believe they are SATA connections ... What a shame I can't just plug in a SATA drive without having to jump through hoops to get it going. I think it too risky to buy one without knowing for sure there wouldn't be any problems. Thanks again for your input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan_B Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 If the information from Speccy is correct then yes your motherboard does support SATA. For XP to boot from SATA it needs the raid drives provided by your motherboard manufacturer which normally happens during the XP setup process. It maybe possible to incorporate the drivers with your IDE drive, backup to an image and then restore to SATA however I've never attempted such a thing. Unless you have the original XP install CD + raid drivers you might as well play it safe and buy a replacement IDE drive for a few extra quid. http://www.motherboardpoint.com/add-sata-driver-after-xp-installed-is7-v-t4043.html Richard S. Sorry but my experience suggests NO PROBLEM. I have a 7+ year old Laptop with 32 bit XP Home edition pre-installed and IDE drives. On that I have licensed Macrium Reflect and that created a 32 bit Boot Rescue CD including WinPE. I have a 64 bit Desktop using SATA drives, and an eSATA connected external drive for backups. One of my first tests on the external drive (whilst there was time to demand an alternative if it was not compatible), was to measure the speed with which the 64 bit Macrium Rescue CD could restore a partition from an eSATA image file, and I was relieved to find that it was much faster than restoring from the same image file on a USB2 connected HDD. It exceeded all expectations when I found the 32 bit 'XP' Macrium Rescue CD was just as fast as the 64 bit when restoring from eSATA to SATA. Macrium license comes at a price, but the SATA capability of WinPE was an unexpected bonus. I deduce that my XP Laptop has full SATA capability when booting up via WinPE, both from the Rescue Boot CD restoration mode, and also the "Live Windows" installed WinPE restoration system. I think all the software drivers are available, I just do not have any SATA hardware interfaces on my Laptop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators DennisD Posted June 9, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted June 9, 2011 Thanks for your insights Alan. It's getting interesting is this. I've no doubt both of you guys are right in what you say, and I've got almost a month come this weekend before I get back home which is when I'll be ordering a new drive. So that's plenty of time to take my time, and learn what I can about this. Putting a SATA drive into a 6 year old desktop running IDE by default, can't be 100% straightforward, but as the computer has SATA capability, and what appear to be SATA drive connections, it shouldn't be too difficult. But we're talking Microsoft here, and HP. Maybe the level of difficulty making the change from IDE to SATA may depend on the make of your computer. I'm just throwing things up in the air here, as this isn't an issue I've encountered myself before, and I can't actually recollect it ever been brought up in a thread in the years I've been here. So, the more input we can get, meaning anyone following this thread who has encountered this IDE/SATA issue before, should throw in their two penneth. There must be a lot of computers out there with SATA capability, but running IDE by default, and their owners have no idea of that fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan_B Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 If you can borrow an external eSATA HDD you could test whether you have or can install SATA drivers. I believe full eSATA is hot swappable. I guess standard SATA would need the drive plugged in before power up. You may need an "internal to eSATA adapter". Either borrow or buy. http://www.amazon.co.uk/SATA-eSATA-Adapter-Bracket-Externally/dp/B0029NJLGK That will set you back ?1-98 The above is all theory and 5 minutes Googling. Others may have better suggestions. Regards Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhawk Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 Adding SATA as a slave drive isn't the issue here it's getting Windows XP to boot from SATA using an IDE preinstalled backup copy. Some BIOS do provide SATA IDE emulation, it's slower than native SATA but maybe a viable solution provide his machine support it. I don't have a SATA drive to play so I can't advise Dennis what drive to buy, however I do know for a fact XP + SATA can be a pain in the backside. Richard S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan_B Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 Would this be an option at ?9-98 Novatech 1 Port PCIe eSATA II Adapter :- http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/prods/components/controllercards/ideandsata/novatech/m113.html it states Driver supported MS Windows 98/ME/2000/XP/NT4.0/Server 2003/XP-64bit/Vista/Win7 They have a user forum and also Tech Support with Live Chat and email options ? Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators DennisD Posted June 10, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted June 10, 2011 Would this be an option at £9-98 Novatech 1 Port PCIe eSATA II Adapter :- http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/prods/components/controllercards/ideandsata/novatech/m113.html it states Driver supported MS Windows 98/ME/2000/XP/NT4.0/Server 2003/XP-64bit/Vista/Win7 They have a user forum and also Tech Support with Live Chat and email options ? Alan Tasgandy uses an adapter with no problems (post #5), but I've read there could be a performance trade off with that. But that could depend upon the make of your computer etc etc., and Tasgandy will I'm sure have a perfectly acceptable set up which he's happy with. I'll do some proper research over the next few weeks, but I've a feeling I'll eventually stick with an IDE replacement. It's too much of a grey area to spend money on a SATA drive, so the only way I could check this is by borrowing a SATA drive from someone, which is unlikely. Or maybe buying a cheapo 2nd hand one from one of the small computer shops round my way, and use it for testing. Just think, I was a happy before I saw those "SATA adapter enabled" settings in the BIOS. (I was bored) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tasgandy Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 Tasgandy uses an adapter with no problems (post #5), but I've read there could be a performance trade off with that. But that could depend upon the make of your computer etc etc., and Tasgandy will I'm sure have a perfectly acceptable set up which he's happy with. You are correct @DennisD - the 6 year old box I use for storing & downloading movies (is also my Ubuntu PC) has 2 x IDE and 1 x "SATA I" & 1 x "SATA II" drives mounted with one of the SATA drives as Primary Master & the other as Secondary Master, with the IDE's being Primary & secondary Slaves, all operating with no issues. However as you say DennisD unless you can borrow a SATA drive for testing (if you were here in Tasmania - Aus, I would lend you one) best to play with the devil you know than the devil you don't know as the devil's always in the detail.............good luck. Always With Kind RegardsTasgandy"one is never too old to listen & learn" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
login123 Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 Nice bunny Dennis. :-) Found this picture of my motherboard on the net...are those sockets circled in the lower right corner for SATA? Diagram from the HP site seems to say so... The CCleaner SLIM version is always released a bit after any new version; when it is it will be HERE :-) Pssssst: ... It isn't really a cloud. Its a bunch of big, giant servers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators DennisD Posted June 11, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted June 11, 2011 I'll just pop under my desk for a minute and whip the side off my case ... ... and now the blood has drained back from my head ... ... I appear to have 4 of them. Does this add any positive observations to the IDE/SATA grey area we've been talking about? It can't be as easy as just plugging a SATA drive into one of these surely. I'm doubtful. Thanks for the pics login, and the time you've spent looking at this. EDIT: For those who have never had to change a CMOS battery, in case you do, that's the round thing there, held in by two plastic clips and the metal connector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
login123 Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 ...Does this add any positive observations to the IDE/SATA grey area we've been talking about?... Well, ahhhh, nooo...I had sorta hoped that somebody who actually knew what they were talking about would just jump in and tell how to do it in 2 easy clicks. Couldn't be that easy, tho, could it? There is information about yours HERE I think. Their forum LINK has some interesting information. I entered "SATA" and "boot from SATA" into the search box, several results popped open. I don't have a sata drive to try out or would have already done it. Thats a great picture, btw. Energizer battery shows up clear as an autumn day. The CCleaner SLIM version is always released a bit after any new version; when it is it will be HERE :-) Pssssst: ... It isn't really a cloud. Its a bunch of big, giant servers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators DennisD Posted June 11, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted June 11, 2011 I had sorta hoped that somebody who actually knew what they were talking about would just jump in and tell how to do it in 2 easy clicks. That's what I'm waiting for. There doesn't seem to be many folk who have actually came across this before, and I'm probably just one of thousands who didn't know their XP machines carried any level of SATA compatibility. It would be just like MS to dangle the carrot of being able to use SATA drives, but to only do half a job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
login123 Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 That's what I'm waiting for. There doesn't seem to be many folk who have actually came across this before, and I'm probably just one of thousands who didn't know their XP machines carried any level of SATA compatibility. It would be just like MS to dangle the carrot of being able to use SATA drives, but to only do half a job. Yep, like the microsoft virtual machine carrot, not available in XP home. At any rate, I am glad to learn of the SATA compatibility, and we have pictures for proof. The CCleaner SLIM version is always released a bit after any new version; when it is it will be HERE :-) Pssssst: ... It isn't really a cloud. Its a bunch of big, giant servers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators DennisD Posted June 17, 2011 Author Moderators Share Posted June 17, 2011 It seems, according to one or two places I've read, that the only way to get SATA drivers to work is to embed them into a new install of Windows. If MS had put some effort into this, they could have made it difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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