Defragment From Optical Drive

[Stephen C]

I have a relatively new Lenovo desktop PC running Win10, x64. There is masses of space on the 1TB System (C) HDD. Current fragmentation is pretty horrendous at 51%. Defraggler seems to be unable to reduce the fragmention. Win10 Optimizer makes no improvement. I've endeavoured to run Defraggler from a Hiren's Boot Disk, MiniWindowsXP, but when loading/launching the o/s the system crashes out to Blue Screen and displays some deterring instructions. Any suggestions or help would be appreciated. In the past I have had great success running Defraggler from MiniWinXP and fragmentation is usually reduced to 0%.

Many thanks in anticipation

[hazelnut]

Just checking... is this a hard drive or a solid state drive?

What actually happens when you use Windows built-in defragger/optomiser? Does it complete?

[Stephen C]

The drive is Hard Disk. Win10 Optimizer completes and I've used it more than once with no benefit. I used the installed Defraggler to defrag during boot up and it reduced fragmentation from 51 to 44%, which is the best I could achieve. If you have any bright ideas I would welcome them and thank you anyway for chiming in

[mta]

What about defraging with the PC in Safe Mode?

it may sound like a high amount of fragmentation but what are the files listed?
they may just be system files like page file, restore points, hibernation, or temp files so run CCleaner first and see if that also helps.
and if Win10 has done a major update there may be windows.old folders left behind to cleanup.

[Willy2]

- Is this a matter of permssions ? Did you run the program with admin rights ? Or did some other program/app mess up those permissions ?

- If it's matter of permissions then try if running Tweaking's Windows Repair will help. It has a repair that puts all permissions back to their default state(s).

[Andavari]

Thing is it's not always necessarily a permissions issue.

For instance some antivirus with strong self-protection won't allow allot of third-party disk defrag tools to defragment the antivirus software's definition/signature files (Kaspersky Free Antivirus comes to mind), however some will allow the built-in Windows Disk Defragmenter/Optimizer to defragment them.

[Stephen C]

On ‎02‎/‎05‎/‎2018 at 13:44, mta said:

What about defraging with the PC in Safe Mode?

it may sound like a high amount of fragmentation but what are the files listed?
they may just be system files like page file, restore points, hibernation, or temp files so run CCleaner first and see if that also helps.
and if Win10 has done a major update there may be windows.old folders left behind to cleanup.

Thank you for that, MTA. I haven't tried Safe Mode. I've certainly utilised CCleaner as it's on my regular list of maintenance events. The Defraggler operation during restart deals with the Page File and as such I suspect that's what caused the reduction from 51 to 44%. I have of course run Win Disk Cleaner, so all update unrequired items should be gone. Still the high level of fragmentation remains.

[Stephen C]

On ‎02‎/‎05‎/‎2018 at 14:12, Willy2 said:

- Is this a matter of permssions ? Did you run the program with admin rights ? Or did some other program/app mess up those permissions ?

- If it's matter of permissions then try if running Tweaking's Windows Repair will help. It has a repair that puts all permissions back to their default state(s).

Many thanks, Willy2. Yes, I have run the Piriform app by right clicking and launching as an Administrator. No change I'm afraid.

[Stephen C]

On ‎03‎/‎05‎/‎2018 at 19:10, Andavari said:

Thing is it's not always necessarily a permissions issue.

For instance some antivirus with strong self-protection won't allow allot of third-party disk defrag tools to defragment the antivirus software's definition/signature files (Kaspersky Free Antivirus comes to mind), however some will allow the built-in Windows Disk Defragmenter/Optimizer to defragment them.

Thank you for your comments. The PC in question does not actually belong to me - I am maintaining it for a friend.  My own PC is a laptop running Win10, latest edition. If I wind up with any fragmentation above a value of say, 10% I use Hirens Boot Disk CD and then MIniWindowsXP, followed by Defraggler. This effectively rectifies any/all fragmentation as it can attack the HDD from an o/s running in RAM and therefore the fragmented disk is not being utilised to drive the PC and so any fragmentation can be resolved nicely. Rarely does this fail to produce a 0% fragmented result. If the resultant value is not 0% then running Defraggler from the installed system and setting Boot Time defrag (Page File can be dealt with this way) always produces a maximum success result. My problem is that I am unable to have my friend's PC run MiniWindowXP. If I could make that work (Hiren's Disk) the problem could be easily and successfully taken care of, hence the reason for my posting for all to see and advise.

[Stephen C]

I need to add that I am truly grateful for all who have endeavoured to help with this problem so far, even though there has been no solution as yet.

[Stephen C]

One other thing and that's about the comment on Kaspersky. I have that installed in my laptop and have never encountered any problem as a result of it rejecting a Piriform product activity. My friend with the desktop PC is using Norton Antivirus (Symantec) and that shows no signs of interference either.

[mta]

On the cleanmgr front, did you run it with all possible options ticked, that is, like this;
start an elevated command prompt and type in cleanmgr c: /sageset:1

then tick all the boxes and hit OIK.

now type cleanmgr c: /sagerun:1 and it’ll throw up a couple of windows and will do a much more thorough clean.

[Stephen C]

I confess, no, I haven't tried what you suggest, so many thanks for pushing me in that direction. I'm away until Monday night from Saturday morning (it's 23:40 here) so I'll need to postpone access and test of that command for a few days. Again, many thanks ? 

[Andavari]

Perhaps give a different defrag tool a try.

Also perhaps try using a Bart PE boot CD (I think you'll need the Windows OS install files or Windows install CD to initially make it though), that is if it works properly with modern OSes which I wouldn't know although it did work fine with WinXP. Years ago I'd boot with a Bart PE boot CD and use the now discontinued JkDefrag to defragment the boot drive since JkDefrag was portable - but not all third-party disk defrag tools will work using it, i.e.; the type that actually require installation.

[Stephen C]

Dear All,
Very many thanks to everybody who have come forward with suggestions regarding defragmentation.  Unfortunately the problem still remains.  I have no advice regarding how to make the Hiren's Boot CD and it's MiniWindowsXP work on this relatively (2 years) Lenovo desktop machine.
Does anyone know of a defragmentation tool that is a bootable device (CD/DVD/USB Flash) that will thoroughly defragment a Windows 10 system?  I believe the internal Optimizer tool does less than desired as Defraggler continues to indicate a very high level of fragmentation.

In appreciation,
Stephen C

 

[Willy2]

- Try this:

- Run Defraggler to analyze that problem drive. Are there some type of files or folders that aren't being de-fragmented by DF ? E.g. the folder "System Volume Information" ?

- Run Antibody's WIZTREE. This program gives an overview of the size of (large) files and folders. Is the folder "System Volume Information" (very) large ? In MBs and %. That folder contains the data for the System Restore Points and DF isn't able to move/defragment those files.

- Disable the "System Restore" feature and restart. Then all those "Restore points" are gone. Is DF able to defragment the remaining files/folders ?

[Stephen C]

Thank you for that, Willy.

The machine's owner is away for a few days and when he returns I'll have access to the PC again and will try your idea.

Again, many thanks. S ?