SSD Trim support

[toptek]

Not sure if it can be done with Defraggler and just a Suggestion.

 

 

Or even Safe SSD support with Defraggler.

 

 

I love Defraggler to the point I pay for it each year or started to this year . ..

 

 

Well worth it .

[Alan_B]

Nice way to drive an SSD to an early grave

[Nergal]

Alan I think you missed the title of the thread I think the poster is asking for trim support (though I thought windows trimmed on it's own)

[Alan_B]

I understand that SSD Trim is an operation performed by Windows 7 (or maybe VIsta) and onwards,

but is not available on XP.

 

I understand that SSD Trim is a mechanism for telling the SSD that specific LBA are no longer in use and may be erased ready for re-use.

 

I understand that Piriform play safe with their products and used published API's to tell Windows what to do,

and I hope (but cannot trust) that Windows has the intelligence to recognise that when defraggler has been told by the user to relocate file fragments to new LBA's,

that Windows will see the need to include the old LBA in a TRIM action without defraggler having to tell Windows that NOW is a good time to TRIM.

 

I think it is bad enough that a user would defrag an SSD,

and a second wrong of bypassing Windows and directly instructing the SSD to TRIM is not going to make things right.

[Augeas]

I'm not sure what the OP is asking. To TRIM the volume after it's been defragged, or just to issue a TRIM command on the volume without defragging.

 

If the former then I thought that if TRIM was supported and enabled by the OS and the device then, as Nergal says, TRIM commands will be issued on file deletion (unless the defrag API is peculiar).

 

If the latter then why should Defraggler do this, and not CC, where this action seems more suitable?

[toptek]

np . I found this https://www.totalidea.com/tweak-ssd.php

 

i'll still use deraggler for my hardware based harddrive ..

 

just thought id ask . and I'm ware of all the stuff you all posted ty .. was hoping for a all in one thing.

[toptek]

I'm not sure what the OP is asking. To TRIM the volume after it's been defragged, or just to issue a TRIM command on the volume without defragging.

 

If the former then I thought that if TRIM was supported and enabled by the OS and the device then, as Nergal says, TRIM commands will be issued on file deletion (unless the defrag API is peculiar).

 

If the latter then why should Defraggler do this, and not CC, where this action seems more suitable?

 

 

your right I should have asked if CC could have it added, I guess I thought because SSD are HDD only better and don't use moving parts it was best here .

 

didn't think about how it might be better asked in the CC suggestion forum. mybad

[toptek]

I understand that SSD Trim is an operation performed by Windows 7 (or maybe VIsta) and onwards,

but is not available on XP.

 

I understand that SSD Trim is a mechanism for telling the SSD that specific LBA are no longer in use and may be erased ready for re-use.

 

I understand that Piriform play safe with their products and used published API's to tell Windows what to do,

and I hope (but cannot trust) that Windows has the intelligence to recognise that when defraggler has been told by the user to relocate file fragments to new LBA's,

that Windows will see the need to include the old LBA in a TRIM action without defraggler having to tell Windows that NOW is a good time to TRIM.

 

I think it is bad enough that a user would defrag an SSD,

and a second wrong of bypassing Windows and directly instructing the SSD to TRIM is not going to make things right.

 

I don't Defragg MY SSD at all, what gaves you idea i do ? . I did say trim support .

 

using trim will not hurt my SSD . defraging it will i have turned off the rewrites to it i poss can etc etc .;

 

I'm not sure why you seem so mad at my request, i did post in the wrong forums etc . mybad.

 

AND if you right click the SSD drive in Win 8, it will let you use trim if want to and set it to use trim every day if you so want it . i just wanted a better program is all .

 

Sorry it was a suggestion.

[hazelnut]

topak you've done nothing wrong on forum so don't worry.

 

Can I wish you a belated welcome here, and we look forward to you joining in any discussions

[Alan_B]

I'm not sure why you seem so mad at my request, i did post in the wrong forums etc . mybad.

I was not mad at you,

I was trying to protect you from the folly of defragging your SSD,

You had already started this topic in the wrong sub-forum so I saw no indication that you knew any better than to defrag your SSD.

I was also warning off any naive user or searcher on the Internet who might be encouraged to think that Defraggler was intended for his SSD.

 

N.B.

I do not see any particular benefit with Win8 from initiating TRIM with a right click on your SSD,

since my understanding is that by default Win8 will :-

Automatically run what it calls a "Defrag" that is NOT a defrag as we know it, but actually does what we know as a TRIM,

and also, just like Win7, automatically initiates TRIM when files have been deleted ;

 

I think you are asking Defraggler or CCleaner to fix something that, so far as I know, is not broken on Windows 7 and onwards.

 

If you know some aspect of TRIM that is broken and needs fixing by third party software then please explain what it is.

 

P.S.

I am sorry but the link you provided only offers software that is available as a Trial WITHOUT TRIM ENHANCEMENT,

OR alternatively includes Trim Enhancement after purchase of a license,

Nowhere do I see any indication of how it might benefit Windows 8.

[Augeas]

Whether or not a global TRIM is needed, or whatever frequency it should be run, I can't see that any Piriform product would do anything more than the Windows 8 Optimise settings would do (http://www.eightforu...indows-8-a.html). It would at the most be extra code to front-end the process, and even worse a "I don't know what this is but I'll press it" button.

 

 

PS I don't know if this is the Win8 right-click and TRIM command - http://msdn.microsof...3(v=vs.85).aspx - but this appears to be designed for specific 'self-managed file allocations' rather than augmenting the standard automatic TRIM process.

[toptek]

Its cool I'm sorry for all the confusin, I thought maybe it would be a good thing , but after I see here it might be fine how it is .

 

There nothing wrong with trim I'm aware of , I thought it might be help full to have the option and I totally understand if its not worth doing ,.

 

As for windows 8 trim, use the Defrag for the SSD if this helps any it says trimmed when you go Optimize it , that what's made me think to ask here .

 

last thought if this helps,

 

 

I learned not to Defragg SSD form using Defraggler , I got my first SSD three month ago .now have 3 . .

 

but its all good and ty again

[Rebecca Menessec]

Whether or not a global TRIM is needed, or whatever frequency it should be run, I can't see that any Piriform product would do anything more than the Windows 8 Optimise settings would do (http://www.eightforu...indows-8-a.html).

What it would do is allow Windows 8 refuseniks (me) to TRIM a previously-used drive that's just had a fresh Windows install put on it. I can't find any references to Windows 7 helpfully TRIMming the content of a previously-used drive before installing to it, so presumably all the blocks that were in use before the new Windows install are still marked as "used" by the SSD.

 

Yes, technically, I can boot from removable media with Linux and attempt to TRIM the drive wholesale, but that's a major headache for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is that many BIOSes don't really quite correctly support booting from USB flash drives; and the ones that do tend to be very quirky about just which drives they'll boot off.

 

...or I guess I can wait and see if Windows 8.2 is any better.

[Alan_B]

so presumably all the blocks that were in use before the new Windows install are still marked as "used" by the SSD.

I think you might be 97% wrong

 

After Analyzing my 55.8 GB capacity SSD it represent this as a 4 inch by 6 inch matrix with a grid of 8 lines per inch.

8 * 8 * 4 * 6 = 1536 squares = 55.8 GB = 36 MB per square.

Used space is only 12.2 GB and occupies 368 squares.

Excluding a single square in the middle of free space holding a 1768 KB file C:\$Bitmap,

all 368 occupied square are in a contiguous region of only 379 squares with only 11 white squares within that region

i.e. there is only 2.9 % white space within that region.

 

After more than 6 months use without ever defragging the SSD,

only the final 2.9% of 12.2 GB is outside of the very first 12.2 GB

If I now fully install Windows I would expect contiguous use of the first 12.2 GB of Windows L.B.A.

and this would instruct the SSD firmware that the cells holding the first 12.2 GB of the old Windows were now garbage to be collected at its convenience,

so only the next 2.9% of 12.2 GB would be left holding onto the previous Windows Installation garbage.

 

So far as OCZ are concerned, their SSD's benefit from a "Secure ATA Erase" which takes only a few seconds,

and this is better than a TRIM - it purges everything so that all memory cells are ready for writing a fresh installation of Windows.

 

Your Mileage May Vary

 

It will do your SSD no harm at all to simply analyze your SSD and observe how close it is to contiguous use of L.B.A.