Windows 7 Ultimate + SP1 tells 4000+ lies to everyone

[Alan_B]

It tells the same lies to "BUILTIN ADMINISTRATOR" as it tells to me.

 

I have a total of 2.61 GB held in 13,262 files within C:\Windows\System32.

It tells lies about nearly 50% of them - exactly 1.3 GB in 4335 files which are falsely misreported.

 

The problem seems to be a form of Schizophrenia - Windows has different views of reality.

 

I will for now assume that Windows Explorer tells me a truth that is consistent with "Volume Shadow copy Service"

and that truth is what Macrium Reflect uses when creating a partition/disc backup image which has successful restored my system.

 

Apart from Macrium, EVERY third party utility which I have tried is given erroneous information that the files are :-

Older and smaller;

Or Figments of imagination;

Or that they have different names.

My immediate interest is in the "Older and Smaller"

 

Even using BUILTIN ADMINISTRATOR account I see these errors, so I believe it should not be permissions issues.

Am I banging my head against integrity levels ?

 

Properties.gif :-

Macrium has "mounted" as R:\ an image file created a few minutes earlier,

and SyncronizeIT! has compared C:\ and R:\ and found 1.3 GB of discrepancies.

By selecting SyncronizeIT view of C:\ and right-click properties I get the top left corner view of 3.55 MB

and SyncronizeIT view of R:\ gave top right view of 3.57 MB

The bottom left and right came from Windows Explorer.

Windows 7 allows Windows Explorer to see the truth of a live system C:\

but all other third party utilities are deliberately deceived.

This applies to all folder/file synchronising/archiving tools I have tried

It also applies to third party substitutes for Windows Explorer such as Q-DIR

 

My main interest is in comparing C:\ with how it was when I last made a "final backup of a good system",

so that I will be reminded of any application I installed and have since found inadequate.

I need a reminder to clean up forgotten junk before I make a more recent "final backup of a good system",

and it also gave peace of mind to know that secret malware incursions would be detected.

Now I have moved from XP to Windows 7 the forgotten junk and any malware are concealed by the monstrous lies.

 

WINMERGE.GIF

Macrium has restored a duplicate of C:\ as partition P:\

Highlight in Blue are 12 files which are detected as Identical because Winmerge was configured to ignore date/time differences.

Above are 3 files with differences.

ReAgent.xml and MachinGuid.txt are discrepancies caused by lies

Please ignore ReAgent_Alan_.txt which I created to test something else.

Below the highlight are 6 files in the folder "SetUp", and these all have different sizes and different times in 2009.

 

Regards

Alan

[Aethec]

Is your Windows 64-bit and Macrium a 32-bit app?

WoW64 redirects certain things to other places (e.g. C:\Windows\System32 to C:\Windows\Sysnative).

[Alan_B]

Macrium Reflect and Windows 7 are both 64 bit.

 

I believe Q-DIR and all my Folder/File comparators are 32 bit applications.

 

Q-DIR and Synchronize IT! both claim Windows 7 compatibility.

 

I see that Q-DIR is available as 64 bit application in a download that is 778 KB instead of 396 KB.

I guess I could see if that is given a more accurate view of system32,

but it really hurts me after a lifetime of developing 8 bit applications to use 200,000 64 bit words where half of each word is a space waster ! !

 

I will return later to report if 64 bit 3rd party software might solve my problems.

 

Regards

Alan

[Alan_B]

Is your Windows 64-bit and Macrium a 32-bit app?

WoW64 redirects certain things to other places (e.g. C:\Windows\System32 to C:\Windows\Sysnative).

Many thanks for your question.

It has pointed me in a good direction.

 

I have just downloaded and unzipped the latest 32 bit and 64 bit version of Q-DIR, version 4.51

 

Using my normal account with Admin privileges (i.e. not the BUILTIN ADMINISTRATOR) I find :-

32 bit Q-DIR is still told lies about accessibilitycpl.dll and ...\recovery\ReAgent.xml, but

64 bit Q-DIR is given the true size and time stamp for each.

 

I do not have the patience to similarly test the other 4333 files that were misrepresented,

but I now have hopes that my needs will be met if I can find a 64 bit version of a folder/file comparator/synchroniser.

 

You gave information on icacls and Integrity Levels

I previously knew of icacls and thought it was simply a "better" front-end for cacls,

and I had never heard of integrity levels.

Should I assume that 64 bit Windows 7 considers 32 bit application code to have lower integrity than 64 bit,

and is therefore neither worthy of nor capable of dealing with the full truth ?

 

I will now hunt for 64 bit comparators.

 

Once more, many thanks.

 

Regards

Alan

[Alan_B]

Happy to report that Allway Sync has just been updated and has a 64 bit installer,

and as hoped 64 bit Win 7 gives this the truth which it denies to 32 bit applications.

 

I have posted snapshots in my topic on their forum at

http://sync-center.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=200

 

Many thanks to Aethec for pointing me in the right direction.

 

Regards

Alan

[Aethec]

WoW64 doesn't do anything to integrity levels ; however, it denies x86 software write access to folders such as Program Files (which is redirected to Program Files (x86) ) and system32 (redirected to Sysnative).

They can still read from those folders, however.

Even 64-bit programs are impacted by some redirections (when a non-admin program tries to write into Program Files if UAC is enabled, it will sometimes (I can't figure out when) be redirected to a folder within AppData to prevent apps from failing to run because of security permissions introduced in Vista).

I once had the same problem - I was creating a screensaver, and ordered Visual Studio to move it into System32 upon successful compiling. I spent half an hour finding why it wasn't moved to system32

[DennisD]

Interesting thread guys.

 

It's also shown me that my Q-Dir is well out of date.

[Alan_B]

Even 64-bit programs are impacted by some redirections (when a non-admin program tries to write into Program Files if UAC is enabled, it will sometimes (I can't figure out when) be redirected to a folder within AppData to prevent apps from failing to run because of security permissions introduced in Vista).

 

The horrendous thought occurs that I have 4000+ files that were originally created with an "admin" program and suffered no redirection,

and subsequently they were revised by a "non-admin" program and the new version was redirected,

and then when I use a 64 bit application it does not experience redirection so I see the older/smaller version,

but when I use a 32 bit application I am redirected to the newer/larger version.

 

Oh what a tangled web we weave,

When first we practice to deceive.

 

The evils of reparse points and their ilk ! !

 

Come back Windows 95.

I now forgive the refusal to shut down each evening and the reprimand each morning for not closing properly.

 

@Dennis

I recently updated Q-DIR to 4.48, and was surprised when I found it had now reached 4.51.

 

Regards

Alan

[Aethec]

Well, that's what happens when the OS has to be compatible with software written for it, and not the other way around like it should be.

[Alan_B]

Tentative Conclusions.

 

64 Bit BestSync meets my immediate needs to avoid 64 bit confusion when comparing the contents of a Live System Partition with a "frozen" earlier image.

32 bit File/Folder Diff detectors are O.K. comparing different images of a 64 bit system,

but are confused by the veil of deception that Live Windows throws over itself.

 

I found BestSync at

http://www.x64bitdownload.com/downloads/t-64-bit-bestsync-download-xzmeyeua.html

 

BestSync originators are at

http://www.risefly.com/foldersynceng.htm

 

I have now bookmarked for all my future 64 bit needs

http://www.x64bitdownload.com/categories/free-64-bit-system-utilities-downloads-13-0-d.html

 

 

I applaud the original decision that c:\Windows\System would remain the home for 16 bit executables,

and a new invention of c:\Windows\System32 was created to hold 32 bit executables.

I accept 64 bit executables might need to live in a separate folder from the above,

but WHY THE IDIOT DECISION that 64 bit executables would NOT be held in System64 ?

Instead the rightful occupants of System32 have been evicted into SysWOW64,

and 64 bit executables are now where they do not belong, in System32.

 

SysWOW64 very strongly implies "System - WOW ! ! SUPER STRENGTH 64"

Were they all on drugs when they invented that name ?

Why not a sensible name like

SysNOT64 or

Sys32OLD

 

What sort of Nightmare world will we have with 128 bit executables ?

What is going to be rehoused in SysWOW128 ?

This is not going to end well ! ! !

 

 

Partition P:\ has been restored by Macrium from an earlier image of System C:\

I have chosen to focus upon Accessibilitycpl.dll

The 64 bit version is 3658 KB with a time stamp of 20/11/2010 05:25

The 32 bit version is 3641 KB with a time stamp of 20/11/2010 04:18

 

C-System.gif shows C:\ as seen by both 32 bit (upper half) and 64 bit (lower half) versions of Q-DIR 4.51

P-Image.gif shows P:\ as seen by both 32 bit (upper half) and 64 bit (lower half) versions of Q-DIR 4.51

 

Windows Explorer and both 64 bit and 32 bit versions of Q-DIR 4.51 have IDENTICAL views of P:\, i.e.

64 bit executables in P:\Windows\System32 and 32 bit executables in P:\Windows\SysWOW64

 

Windows Explorer and 64 bit Q-DIR 4.51 have IDENTICAL views of C:\, i.e.

64 bit executables in C:\Windows\System32 and 32 bit executables in C:\Windows\SysWOW64

 

32 bit Q-DIR 4.51 is deceived by 64 bit Windows 7,

and is only able to see 32 bit executables at both C:\Windows\SysWOW64 and C:\Windows\System32

but it can see the 64 bit executables via the magic "spell" C:\Windows\SysNative

NB Although 32 bit Q-DIR can see what appears to be the contents of C:\Windows\SysNative

when looking at the contents of C:\Windows\ it can see the folders Speech and system,

but there is no SysNative.

 

I suspect no 32 bit folder/file backup system would be aware of the presence of the 64 executables.

I wonder what other "lies" are told by a 64 bit O.S. to a 32 bit application.

 

32 bit Q-DIR looks at C:\Windows\System32 and Live Windows redirects to 32 bit executables in C:\Windows\SysWOW64

32 bit Q-DIR looks at P:\Windows\System32 and Live Windows allows it to see 64 bit executables

This is why my 32 bit folder/file comparators/synchronisers reported such a massive mismatch.

 

My head hurts

Block out the Windows, Close the curtains, prepare for a migraine.