cde

I'm not sure why you would want CC to format anything, since every OS can do that - unless you mean format & secure wipe, which could be nice for non-primary media. (Have you ever noticed how much you can get back off digital camera memory cards?) As a feature idea, how about a reg-watch and file-watch "Wizard" (hate that term, it implies long-winded, broken Windows feature...). I imagine a few steps... Enter Program Name Browse for app's installed folder (if not autodetected) Browse for "Application Data" (if not autodetected) Browse registry for manufacturer's name (if not autodetected) Minimise CC Perform basic tasks (open, copy, paste, save) in app Have CC report changed Reg/file values Option to pick which identified files/reg keys to remove Option to save custom app profile Seems less awkward than hand-editing winapp2.ini for those who don't know how. I guess there is a lot of room for error there. Maybe just have a "submit app" button, we could even have an auto-posted forum where these logs appear, for enthusiasts to pick apart and turn into winapp2.ini entries. Also it would be nice to have CC incorporate cleaning for recent file lists stored within config files, by identifying exact strings and removing them, leaving the rest of the config intact. Can't think of any examples off hand, but I imagine there are some out there!

I agree that the extra few FB would be better wiped than left, and that it should in theory be simple to implement, but as ever we are constantly waiting for updates and usually get new features or UI enhancements that we didn't really see coming.

Maybe this only appeals to the kind of people who vacuum under their sofa...

Er, I know... My point is that people get very concerned about overwriting free space, and the sensitivity of file slack space, but if their drive was ever really investigated there would be lots of written-once space (containing in-use files) from which it would be relatively easy to recover data. I've consistently reminded people that CCleaner is for tidying, not security, I just wanted to highlight some of the futility of free space wiping if you really have something to worry about people recovering... But, on behalf of anyone else who read your reply, thanks for reiterating the use of Eraser as a solution for those who need more wiping than CC offers...

I've commented on some threads regarding file wiping and slack space cleanups, and I thought I should share something that has been on my mind... For every file you wipe, there are many other files that are sat still on your disk. Installed software, audio/video, stuff that will not be edited or removed in a hurry, if ever. If these static files were created in previously-sensitive disk space, they have only been overwritten ONCE during that process - so hardware recovery of data (reading discrepancies at the edges of sectors) would be easier here than on secure-wiped "empty" space! I was a tester for a commercial eraser many years ago, and suggested a "reinforce" option that should re-write data in place, or an option to move existing files to just-wiped sectors, then re-wipe, so that your 3-, 7- or 35-pass paranoia is fully satisfied. Neither idea got implemented. So let's not worry too much about 3KB of slack space if we have 100GB of written-once disk space Sleep well...

[EDIT - removing double post]

To clarify my point - CCleaner is not intended to clean up anything except for the files it can target, so there is just as much chance of your old sensitive data being at the end of foo.tmp as it being at the end of notepad.exe - and in the latter case, CC wouldn't clean it, so why be so concerned about it on the few hundred files that get removed by CC? Buy PGP - for about $30 (I think - personal desktop?) you can replace all "delete" actions, by your or by an app, with secure wipes. Then you can disable CC's secure wipe (no point doing it twice). Or just get a free eraser tool, and wipe free space with that, including slack. Reiterating - "sensitive data X" is statistically unlikely to be in the slack space within a few dozen MB that CC looks for, compared to the size of your drive. However I would like to see CC (or Windows, or every app for that matter) address user concerns, even those I disagree with - I am beginning to wonder why, in these days of very fast disk writing, we have not seen app or OS creators start to blank out disk space up to the end of the last occupied cluster...

but that's my point, a 5KB file may have 3KB slack, but that slack was not part of the file's data, so it typically wouldn't need cleaning. If the file had shrunk this may be untrue, but edited files are also likely to move on the disk, again making slack cleaning unnecessary... Just a thought. Or 2.

Hold on though, the file slack is only "sensitive" if it contains remnants of old files, so by secure wiping an actual file you are getting rid of the most likely sensitive content. To put it another way, if CCleaner removes "myFile.tmp" (5K), there is no logical reason to assume that the slack 3K (2 clusters) will contain anything more sensitive than the combined slack of thousands of other files. For example, my Program Files folder reports: Size: 4.36 GB (4,682,343,422 bytes) Size on disk: (4.47 GB (4,802,899,968 bytes) That's over 100MB of potentially recoverable slack space - are you suggesting that CC should wipe all that each time it runs??? As mentioned above, other programs can "wipe free space" with varying success rates and varying features. Try one of those, perhaps CC will slowly shift from "tidying" to "security" if the demand is there, but in the meantime use the best tool for any one job...

Agreed! If you must have a "things I'm doing" folder, why not leave one in the corner of your desktop, acll it something that is not a reserved system work ("unfiled", "to do" etc.) and stick a dummy file in there to see that it survives CCleaning. CC shouldn't remove anything that is not safe to delete, so the most likely reason for unwanted deletion is putting files in risky places or giving them risky names... Temp locations may include: (in root of drive) \Temp \Windows\Temp \Windows\local settings\temp \Documents and Settings\USER\local settings\temp As a rule of thumb, don't make any files in system areas - use your own docs or desktop for storage (or at least make new folders in your "Docs & settings\USERNAME" space)

I second the post saying check FF has closed properly. Sometimes it will remain open, with no windows (also characterised by being prompted to make a new profile if you try to re-run it, with a message saying your profile is in use. Press Shift+CTRL+ESC (2k/XP) to get the task manager up, and kill firefox.exe on the Processes tab if it's there. If you aren't using CC's secure wipe, don't forget with FF1.5 and later (get 1.5.0.1 or the latest build at http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/all.html ) you can set FF to clear it's own private data when it closes. HOWEVER FF will keep your cache until it next relaunches, in a "cache.trash" folder, this is another folder that CC removes if present. If you can't see firefox.exe in the Task Manager, chances are you ran CC too soon after shutting FF, it takes most apps a moment to close properly after you get rid of their window(s). Hope this helps cde

I can't argue with you on the basic facts here - security services will have plenty of tricks up their sleeves to retrieve data, but destroying a HD platter at extreme temperatures isn't convenient for most users as part of their PC maintenance schedule. The issue here is more about software recovery tools, such as Norton's Unerase Wizard and other similar programs. They have no trouble finding "deleted" files because no effort is made by Windows to get rid of file contents when we empty the trash, cache or whatever. So with little effort, people can have their deletions undone, which they might not be happy with. By offering a simple overwrite of the disk space previously occupied, CC can at least make the recovery process harder than a couple of clicks. Different recovery apps may be able to find file names, dates, sizes, perhaps fragments of data from old versions of trashed docs, but as a gesture towards security I think secure wiping is commendable. After all, Linux and Mac OSX offer secure erasing within the OS itself - would they bother if it had no use? A good solution may be running Portable Firefox from inside a Truecrypt volume, which could also hold many files, or investing in PGP with whole disk encryption, but this would also seem like overkill for most users. Now where did I leave that furnace?

Try creating a logoff script that runs "C:\Program Files\CCleaner\ccleaner.exe" /AUTO (or should it be C:\progra~1\ccleaner\ccleaner.exe /AUTO to avoid the quotes?) This should silently run your last-selected CCleaner options - I use the first AUTO syntax on my desktop shortcut, since I don't need to analyse, check and ponder over CC each time it runs... A discussion of logoff scripting for an app with a more long-winded command line is here: http://www.snugserver.com/phpbb2/viewtopic...=asc&highlight= Good luck, let us know if it works

http://www.macromedia.com/support/flash/ac..._shared_object/ Shared objects are not regular cookies, they are stored in C:\Documents and Settings\[PROFILE]\Application Data\Macromedia\Flash Player\#SharedObjects\[RANDOM]\[ORIGINATING-SITE-URL] (the corresponding entry in winapp.ini is:) [Macromedia Flash Player] LangSecRef=3023 Detect=HKCR\CLSID\{D27CDB6E-AE6D-11cf-96B8-444553540000} Default=True FileKey1=%appdata%\Macromedia\Flash Player|*.*|RECURSE They are files ending with .sol and they are almost human-legible for simple data. You can edit them with .sol Editor from http://sourceforge.net/projects/soleditor/ Hope this helps

Fair points there, I'm sure we both have social lives and "hobbies" (though that make it sound like we both paint glass all day...). And yes, my heavy-on-the-caps "Point 5" could be read without a comedy tone of voice, so I guess it takes 2 to tango. In this case, the tango was a little close to a flame war. And I'll half accept that responsibility....... much as it's always tough to admit fault. I guess we'll just end up differing on the toolbar thing. I wouldn't recommend anyone goes anywhere except for the manufacturer's homepage for software, even if they use Tucows etc. to find it. It's just not polite, and in some cases just not safe. And I think people need to read more instructions, so if we want another build we can find it, or after the (tiny) inconvenience of a larger download, we can install just-what-we-want. Since upcoming Y! bar enhancements actually involve anti-spyware features that could prevent malware getting installed (bearing in mind that CC doesn't do AdAware's job), maybe we could start a new debate on the evilness of Y!??? Maybe not, it wouldn't be safe in the current climate I think ultimately it's up to MrG to market his tool however he wants, and by releasing just the Y! version on mirrors he might increase traffic to his site (since that's where we're all aiming people!), which may get more clicks on the FileHippo links, which could also raise money. I read elsewhere a complaint that he doesn't post on the forum except for announcements - and why should he? He might well work a 60 hour week in a cleaning job for all I know, coding at 3am to ease the insomnia, or he might be partying all day on the proceeds of his Y! deal (j/k ), so why spend time fielding comments and questions? Whatever he's up to, good luck to him. People who strike on good ideas (or saleable ideas, like that damn million dollar homepage) shouldn't be penalised for it. If I set up a blog about - for example - last minute available flights, and lots of executives go there, am I evil if I do a deal so that I get paid for click-through purchases, or if I advertise an airline? Now if I set up a blog that is just ads, and set up scripts to make fake clicks, that would be evil... So apologies for al the "grrr" and let's keep recommending CC-Slim. Maybe those Open Source advocates should write CCleanerCleaner, to get rid of the extras...

I agree on both points - DoD/Gutmann methods are indeed chosen for their overall effect (data destruction after a mix of zeros, random passes, fixed patterns, byte inversions, or whatever) and not because 35 is a higher number than 7. A good 3 pass wipe is probably better than 7 times with zeros... but a single pass should stop (most?) software recovery tools. It's the dust-free labs with big microscopes you need to worry about if you're wiping 100 times, and by the time your disk gets there you're in real trouble Also using many passes will, eventually, shorten the life of your drive, especially if the drive has to seek around potentially fragmented and scattered files (as with CC) to find the sectors to wipe rather than just clearing a drive start to end. The other point - don't hide anything on a PC. Totally - if you're that worried, run Portable Firefox (portableapps.com) from a Truecrypt drive. Or get PGP and encrypt your whole disk. With an encrypted volume, wiping is redundant unless someone can get to your PC while it's still turned on and unlocked.

Thanks for the snap judgment, I've been using CCleaner since 2004. Added some apps to my config, recommended it to anyone who'll listen, run it daily, upgrade as soon as new versions are available (waited for slim, knew it was being made unlike some users who kept moaning on the forum), love it and trust it. Way to go. No, really, I'm impressed by your insight. Should I be impressed that you have posted 670+ times in under 2 months? That's over 10 posts a day, no wonder you are so emotional about this. If you have nothing else to get upset about, you are very lucky. The "newbie" label means I was only just motivated to register and join this pathetic debate because I think it's plain wrong to bite the hand that feeds you. CCLEANER OWES YOU NOTHING, and the changes that have just happened are still optional. CCleaner is not biting the hand that feeds it, since most of us (me included) are parasite users, not donating, and now some parasites are, bizarrely, wishing that its creators hadn't realised they can make a few cents. Your extremist predictions may come true - and I'd be sad to see such a future - but so what? I've never stated that I am happy that the Y! bar was added, just that it's pretty feeble to get all self-righteous about it. And yes, I agree that donaters may feel hard done by, but maybe they got mail saying "here's a link to the version you deserve". Or maybe as donaters we can expect they have the brain power to look beyond Tucows for their software, and get the slim version. Put simply, if CCleaner gets another 14m downloads and each one raises just 1 cent, that's $140,000. Personally I think it deserves that kind of money, if not significantly more, and it would not be likely to get it from donations. Just maybe, those donations that were sent simply weren't enough to support development and hosting of CC. And so what if after installing we get a page saying "Try WinZIP, try WinAMP, use RealPlayer, look at McAfee products"??? As with the Y! bar, we can say "hey, no thanks", but just maybe someone will go "oh yeah, a firewall", click the link and help the product get more funds. Hell, we could all just install everything on offer to help CCleaner get money, then uninstall it. And clean up the temp files and reg entries with our favourite tool. To sum up: Experienced user joins pathetic debate, not keen on Y! bar but gets flamed for supporting programmer's need for funds, gets pulled into juvenile flame war, still wants CCleaner to be a source of income for developer, still thinks some users invest too much emotion in the whole thing, still amazed that users are personally insulted by something from which they can OPT OUT.

Entries in Regedit might not appear under their brand name, so try looking ni Program Files/CCleaner at the file winapp.ini - don't edit it, but see what each app is looking for. If you see [Grisoft AVG 7.0] LangSecRef=3024 Detect=HKLM\SOFTWARE\Grisoft\Avg7 Default=True FileKey1=%allusersprofile%\Application Data\Grisoft\Avg7Data|*.log FileKey2=%allusersprofile%\Application Data\Grisoft\Avg7Data\upd7bin|*.* FileKey3=%allusersprofile%\Application Data\Grisoft\Avg7Data\$history|*.* FileKey4=%allusersprofile%\Application Data\Grisoft\Avg7Data\avg7upd|*.log FileKey5=%windir%\All Users\Application Data\Grisoft\Avg7Data\upd7bin|*.* FileKey6=%windir%\All Users\Application Data\Grisoft\Avg7Data\avg7upd|$history FileKey7=%windir%\All Users\Application Data\Grisoft\Avg7Data\avg7upd|*.log FileKey8=%windir%\All Users\Application Data\Grisoft\Avg7Data|*.log FileKey9=%windir%\Application Data\AVG7\Log|*.log You can see, in this case, CC is looking in the registry at HKLM (HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE) for Grisoft\Avg7. Not all apps will be this obvious

I like donationWare, but I never donate. I bought WinRAR and PGP, $30 each or less, but they offer a lot more than CC in my opinion (if you use command line RAR for automation etc). Look at Quicktime. Who ever upgrades to Pro? OK, some people do, but there's always the argument that "I can do (almost) as much for free with tools X Y and Z". And that argument only exists with commercial products. An optional toolbar is hardly sneaking in, unless you pay no attention when using your PC. In which case it could be suggested that you deserve all the spyware and other clutter that may accumulate from careless computing. And for those who do get the toolbar installed, what will they do? 1. "Oh, a toolbar" (click) "uninstalled!" (or hidden) 2. "Hmm, a toolbar" (click click click) "CCleaner reinstalled, no toolbar!" 3. "Damn, a toolbar" (continues using IE with 1cm less screen real estate and no real drop in quality of life) 4. "Oooh, spyware?" (click click) "Good old spyware removal tools, glad they're free too!" or could it be 5. "AAAAARGH!!! SPYWARE!!! EVIL!!! I HAVE NO IDEA IF THIS IS SENDING MY DNA TO THE FEDS! MUST..... SUE.... CREATOR.... OF.... EXCELLENT...... PROGRAM......!" Just how delicate are these CCleaner users?

I'm amazed that people are so concerned that the installer "barely fits" on a floppy, or might take a few mins to download on dialup. As for being reluctant to recommend it to a friend, just send them the link to the "more versions" page, or directly to the slim version. And I honestly think that it's good that some users will install the toolbar and support CCleaner's development. Sure, an open source cleaner would be great, with regular updates and support for hundreds of apps with dozens of customisation options. But as the people who suggested that are probably aware, making something for free is only appealing up to a point. So why are people so mad about CC getting some income? Would you really pay $10 for it if the next version was not free? Or would you stick with 1.27 and complain about the "spirit" of CCleaner, whatever that means. Come on people, this is a good tool with a slim version. I still agree that the "hidden" versions being called "advanced" is a bit unfair, but we're all able to make our own choices and dig past the one-click browsing instinct. Aren't we?

I thought I should register just to try to calm all the complainers: The toolbar is OPTIONAL, both at the time of download and the time of install. It can be removed after installation, its existence will probably earn a little cash so that CCleaner keeps going strong. I agree that including any bloatware is a shame, but would you rather the app died if money was short? Just go to http://www.ccleaner.com/downloadbin.asp?f=1 (no toolbar) or http://www.ccleaner.com/downloadbin.asp?f=2 (no toolbar, English only) and you get the same small installer and trouble-free program as you ever did. I also agree that all versions should be prominent, but then again as a UK user of Firefox/Thunderbird on Mac & PC I am used to looking on the "Other versions and languages" page. The web will never be tailor made for everyone. Another point, which someone made regarding Google's toolbar, is that some people like toolbars. Not me, probably not you, but I'd bet that at least one CCleaner user actually had the Y! toolbar already, despite wanting to clean other junk off their system. The two aren't mutually exclusive in daily life. Also many ISPs (inc. mine) hijack Outlook and IE with their own branding/toolbars/search boxes/ads/bloatware WITH NO OPT OUT when you install their settings or broadband modem drivers. (Yes, you can probably set up any ISP by hand, with a list of servers and the manufacturer's drivers, but you see my point) To all those who think they have the ultimate clean system: Have you removed unused .BMP background tiles from your Windows directory? How about 0.log and clock.avi? Do you have any empty or obsolete Program Files folders or AppData folders from old apps, or old versions? CCleaner does a good job, can't we just use the version we want and be happy?