Hi, Using Windows XP. I was attempting to install the JRE. Specifically: jre-6u11-windows-i586-p-iftw-k.exe from Sun Java site : http://www.java.com/en/download/manual.jsp Each time I attempted to install it, the message appeared : JAVA SETUP: This software is already installed on your computer would you like to reinstall it? Y Then message: WINDOWS INSTALLER This is only valid for products that are currently installed. The installation failed. I ran CCleaner a number of times to fix registry etc. It failed to solve the problem. After searching the web, I found out what was needed fortunately, which was to (in Regedit) remove : HKEY_CURRENT_USER Javasoft, and HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE Javasoft. I think your product should detect that, don't you? I think that what happened to cause it, was that I thought I had removed Java in AddRemovePrograms. As removing often leaves directories, I thought that it had left the Java directory in Program Files, so I deleted it. In fact, I think I had not deleted Java at all. I presume that this is the type of error that CCleaner should fix.
For Java related issues, etc., you should look at the freeware program JavaRa. There's a thread on here about it located here.
For Java related issues, etc., you should look at the freeware program JavaRa. There's a thread on here about it located here.
I ran JavaRA, and it did not fix the problem. It did run OK, but on completion the problem was still there. It appeared to just delete some old items.
You may want to give the freeware Revo Uninstaller a try, since it's capable of removing stuff without a proper uninstaller. If that also fails you unfortunately may end up having to manually remove the Java Runtime which doesn't sound like a fun task.
I ran JavaRA, and it did not fix the problem. It did run OK, but on completion the problem was still there. It appeared to just delete some old items.
I am sorry if I wasn't clear in my initial post, but I have fixed the problem using RegEdit. The point of my posting was to draw attention to the Fact that CCleaner did not fix it, and I thought that it should. I attempted to notifying them using the notification form, however that did not work, hence my posting here. As I said, the problem was fixed using RegEdit.
I think it was a mistake to remove the previous version of Java.
A few days ago I read that Sun have at last recognised that no-one wants their old rubbish clogging up the system,
and as of version 6u11 they now clean the ancient rubbish.
Obviously when you removed the old version, their new version could not identify what needed to be removed, it just knew the registry was telling it that Java already existed - hence installation failed.
I would guess that CCleaner is very correct in NOT removing the registry keys if it considers Java to still be present,
and OFTEN when Add/Remove is used to remove an installation it leaves a few stragglers behind in the registry and in Program Files and in Documents and Settings.
CCleaner registry cleaning would be far more "interesting" if it zapped the registry keys of any application that was less than 100% complete.
Regards
Alan
I think it was a mistake to remove the previous version of Java.
A few days ago I read that Sun have at last recognised that no-one wants their old rubbish clogging up the system,
and as of version 6u11 they now clean the ancient rubbish.
Obviously when you removed the old version, their new version could not identify what needed to be removed, it just knew the registry was telling it that Java already existed - hence installation failed.
I would guess that CCleaner is very correct in NOT removing the registry keys if it considers Java to still be present,
and OFTEN when Add/Remove is used to remove an installation it leaves a few stragglers behind in the registry and in Program Files and in Documents and Settings.
CCleaner registry cleaning would be far more "interesting" if it zapped the registry keys of any application that was less than 100% complete.
Regards
Alan
Well thanks for illuminating me to the obvious. The point is that there was NOTHING there (code), no error was reported, and no way to fix it was indicated. I fully realize what the problem was. Mistakes DO HAPPEN, that is why programs like CCleaner are required - to fix them. Alternatively we can pretend that all bugs are really just features.
I think that what happened to cause it, was that I thought I had removed Java in AddRemovePrograms. As removing often leaves directories, I thought that it had left the Java directory in Program Files, so I deleted it. In fact, I think I had not deleted Java at all. I presume that this is the type of error that CCleaner should fix.
It seemed obvious to me you admitted to a mistake !
You thought you deleted Java, after which you realised "In fact, I think I had not deleted Java at all."
Is it really beyond the bounds of possibility that you might have also overlooked some other item that had been left over from the old Java ?
Many Java Registry keys contain data which designate Java executables in the Java Program Folders,
and I would not expect CCleaner to purge those keys until the Java executables have gone.
My system has had the benefit of Javara, so ancient garbage went a long time ago.
Is it possible you had some ancient Java executable garbage buried in an unexpected folder, possibly even outside of C:\Program Files ?
It is not obvious to me how to determine whether there is any need to retain the specific registry keys
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\JavaSoft\Java Update\Policy and
HKEY_USERS\S-1-5-21-...etc...-1008\Software\JavaSoft\Java Runtime Environment\1.6.0_10-rc
Those keys are not empty, BUT none of the data designates an executable whose presence could be detected.
Please illuminate me :-
How should CCleaner know whether those keys are obsolete if they contain nothing whose validity can be tested to determine whether the relevant item had been uninstalled ?
Would it involve public knowledge of rigidly enforced rules upon the use of the registry ?
Or would it need detailed understanding of the source code of Java, plus confidence that SUN will never change the rules ?
Regards
Alan
Alan,
I am no expert on the Windows Registry, and really don?t want to get involved with it at all. I had an error, whether I created it, or an uninstaller created it, is irrelevant. Fix-programs like CCleaner are to fix errors and remove the need for users to play around with dangerous tools like Regedit. The keys in the registry for Javasoft pointed to non-existent folders, and that prevented me from installing the software. I have no problem admitting that I caused the problem; that is totally irrelevant and immaterial. The end-result was that I had to stuff around for hours trying to fix it. I want a program to do that for me. I have subsequently found that there are a bunch of Registry-Fix programs out there that will do that for me.
It is not my intention to be unfriendly; however I posted a message here to get an answer, not to get apologies for CCleaner. If they don?t want to change the program, fine, there are a bunch of other programs that will ? as I have subsequently found.
I have had experience with other software where forums are plagued by product-apologists that really just clog-up the works and get in the way of progress. I am unsure why they took the positions they did, however they prevented needed changes by defending products for unknown reasons. I do not see this as a value judgment. There is an obvious error in the registry that prevents re-installation and has to be fixed. Other software products acknowledge it as an error, and it appears obvious to me that CCleaner should also. Had it done so, I would have had no hesitation in purchasing it.
Brian
It seemed obvious to me you admitted to a mistake !You thought you deleted Java, after which you realised "In fact, I think I had not deleted Java at all."
Is it really beyond the bounds of possibility that you might have also overlooked some other item that had been left over from the old Java ?
Many Java Registry keys contain data which designate Java executables in the Java Program Folders,
and I would not expect CCleaner to purge those keys until the Java executables have gone.
My system has had the benefit of Javara, so ancient garbage went a long time ago.
Is it possible you had some ancient Java executable garbage buried in an unexpected folder, possibly even outside of C:\Program Files ?
It is not obvious to me how to determine whether there is any need to retain the specific registry keys
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\JavaSoft\Java Update\Policy and
HKEY_USERS\S-1-5-21-...etc...-1008\Software\JavaSoft\Java Runtime Environment\1.6.0_10-rc
Those keys are not empty, BUT none of the data designates an executable whose presence could be detected.
Please illuminate me :-
How should CCleaner know whether those keys are obsolete if they contain nothing whose validity can be tested to determine whether the relevant item had been uninstalled ?
Would it involve public knowledge of rigidly enforced rules upon the use of the registry ?
Or would it need detailed understanding of the source code of Java, plus confidence that SUN will never change the rules ?
Regards
Alan
brianoh you said...
Other software products acknowledge it as an error, and it appears obvious to me that CCleaner should also. Had it done so, I would have had no hesitation in purchasing it.
CCleaner is not available for purchase, it is freeware, although you can donate should you wish.
People like myself, Alan and many others are just users of this free software and spend some of their own free time in trying to help other users with problems or questions.
We are not blind to any faults that CCleaner may have, that is why there is a bug reporting section which the developer reads.
As to the java issue, lets keep any discussion polite and on track guys.
Brianoh
I too am no expert on the registry.
I have however noticed that CCleaner will delete empty keys that contain no values.
On my fully functional system HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\JavaSoft\ contains nothing at all to designate any programme, it only has subkeys which contain flags denoting (as I interpret their names) whether updates are allowed and how often, but no clues where any updates are to go.
If your desired rules were implemented, CCleaner would probably neutralise any auto-update.
If you could see anything in your HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\JavaSoft\ that designated where an executable should be, your system is unlike my XP Home edition with SP3, and I would suspect that something was corrupted.
If CCleaner zapped registry keys just because of a little corruption, it MIGHT improve user experience on occasions, but I (and many cautious people) would far rather tolerate any slight degradation in boot start-up time than lose something resulting in an un-bootable system. Therefore we would prefer to make daily use of a SAFE registry cleaner and switch to more dangerous techniques only when essential.
Please note that there are many more dangerous Registry Cleaners available for you to use. They MIGHT have solved your problem.
BUT sometimes NOTHING can cure the registry for you. I was once unable to upgrade my software firewall, and the ONLY cure (apart from re-installing Windows) was to use a special registry EDITOR to "take ownership" of a Comodo registry key BEFORE I could delete it, after which the upgrade proceeded sweetly.
Please note that I download a special registry editor which hammered at the registry until it was done, and after I gave 3 or 4 clicks it erased Comodo's main key and all its 1000's of subkeys. I subsequently found I could have deleted them with RegEdit, but only by special actions of "taking ownership" of a child key without being allowed to see what the correct owner was that did not want me to get inside nor even see what was inside the key. Doing this for all the child keys, and then doing the same for the grandchildren keys, and then after I owned all the keys. Then RegEdit allowed by to delete all the great-grandchildren keys one at a time, and only after they had gone could I delete their parents.
I found the technique with Regedit, but not the patience. If I had not found the superior registry editor I would have been stuck with an obsolete firewall.
I am absolutely convinced that no registry cleaner would have been able to purge those keys for me. I did find some which used reg.exe or some-such to instruct Windows to delete those keys, BUT they did not receive (or did not listen to) an error status that the key was inaccessible and frozen - they just assumed that because they said GO it had gone away.
If I had found a super registry cleaner, I would never have made daily use of it - I would have kept in a password locked folder to absolutely prevent accidental use.
Regards
Alan
Purchase, donate, gift, buy, procure; call it whatever you like, you get the drift.
As I said, the product should detect the error. What's his name can say what he likes; being an apologist doesn't help anyone. I reported the fault to help the developer, and then I have to cope with some one who tries to tell me CCleaner should not fix or report on the problem because it is not an error. Obviously that is absurd. The Registry points to Java folders that are simply not there. Other Registry Cleaners detect, report, and fix it. Saying that CCleaner should not is like telling me that black is white. Being an apologist does not help anyone.
There, the matter is closed. I have reported it, the rest is in your hands.
Brian
brianoh you said...
CCleaner is not available for purchase, it is freeware, although you can donate should you wish.
People like myself, Alan and many others are just users of this free software and spend some of their own free time in trying to help other users with problems or questions.
We are not blind to any faults that CCleaner may have, that is why there is a bug reporting section which the developer reads.
As to the java issue, lets keep any discussion polite and on track guys.
Brianoh
Sorry my last response was too long for you to comprehend.
The essential points are :-
I accept that, as you say, "The Registry points to Java folders", BUT I do not fully agree.
THAT ONLY applies to HKEY_USERS\S-1-5-21-...etc...-1008\Software\JavaSoft\
Your statement is false with respect to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\JavaSoft\
as it exists on my fully functional Java equipped system.
Were CCleaner to be amended to suit your requirements I think it would damage the Auto-Update facility for Java.
As it happens, I prefer to minimise any sort of auto-update, I like to stay in control,
but I DEMAND that this suppression (or enablement) of auto-update should REMAIN under my control,
and that I should not be usurped by "helpful" software.
Regards
Alan
Alan,
I must apologize.
I did read your previous message, and yes it was rather long, so I summarized it as follows:
When I have had time to digest your latest message, I will reply again.
Brian
Brianoh
Sorry my last response was too long for you to comprehend.
The essential points are :-
I accept that, as you say, "The Registry points to Java folders", BUT I do not fully agree.
THAT ONLY applies to HKEY_USERS\S-1-5-21-...etc...-1008\Software\JavaSoft\
Your statement is false with respect to HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\JavaSoft\
as it exists on my fully functional Java equipped system.
Were CCleaner to be amended to suit your requirements I think it would damage the Auto-Update facility for Java.
As it happens, I prefer to minimise any sort of auto-update, I like to stay in control,
but I DEMAND that this suppression (or enablement) of auto-update should REMAIN under my control,
and that I should not be usurped by "helpful" software.
Regards
Alan