Windows 10 1909

[hazelnut]

I wish I had your machine here, I'm sure it's a config issue.

Do you have any other machines with this issue?

What AV is on the machine?

[nukecad]

Sounds very odd, 1909 is not all that different to 1903. It was more of a fix update rather than a full feature update.

Reliability History usually has errors in there and reports them back to MS, if you haven't turned the reporting off. Most users aren't even aware that these errors are hapening as they don't usually stop things working.

I do note that you say you tweaked the registry to stop RB using high CPU, have you tried undoing/reversing that tweak in 1909? It could be that 1909 has fixed the original high CPU problem and is now balking at your tweak?

PS. MS support seems to be pretty useless these days

[hazelnut]

4 minutes ago, nukecad said:

 

Reliability History usually has errors in there and reports them back to MS, if you haven't turned the reporting off. Most users aren't even aware that these errors are hapening as they don't usually stop things working.

 

I find Reliability History very informative and wouldn't turn it off. When troubleshooting  a machine it's one of the first things I look at.

 

[crizal]

@hazelnut -- I do not have any other machines.  AV is Windows Defender.

@nukecad -- Yes, 1909 is a 1903 fixer and you are right, the Reliability History errors aren't stopping the computer from working.  It's really an annoyance at this point.  The registry tweak to stop Runtime Broker was done and reversed back when I was on 1909.  That was for high CPU and memory usage which has never been my issue.  MS was grasping at straws.  I'm back on 1903 and no errors.

[hazelnut]

Are you saying you actually did a clean install of 1909 from an iso and you still had issues?

[crizal]

4 minutes ago, hazelnut said:

Are you saying you actually did a clean install of 1909 from an iso and you still had issues?

Yes -- just the Runtime Broker stopped working error.  Not to confuse the issue, I have backup images (Macrium Reflect) for 1809 and 1903.  I used the 1903 image to get that back on my machine.  And even earlier, I put 1809 in and updated to 1909 using the Windows Update Assistant.  No solution found yet.  1903 is working just fine.

[nukecad]

I suppose that what MS said is fair enough then -  it seems an odd problem and if you are happy with 1903 then keep using it.

Not a real fix for the problem but sometimes you just have to be practical and stick with what works for you. (And hope there is a real fix later).

I had a few niggles (not problems) with 1903 that 1909 has cured.

PC= Personal Computer, with the emphasis on personal, each one is set up differently with different components and software installed.

[crizal]

1 hour ago, nukecad said:

I suppose that what MS said is fair enough then -  it seems an odd problem and if you are happy with 1903 then keep using it.

Not a real fix for the problem but sometimes you just have to be practical and stick with what works for you. (And hope there is a real fix later).

I had a few niggles (not problems) with 1903 that 1909 has cured.

PC= Personal Computer, with the emphasis on personal, each one is set up differently with different components and software installed.

I agree with you entirely.  I believe @hazelnut is on the right track -- some type of configuration issue.  Finding it is another matter.  No doubt there will be some cumulative updates coming for 1909 and 1903 gets the same ones.  I could easily test them out by going from 1903 to 1909 via Windows Update and quickly get back to 1903 by uninstalling the Enablement Package if 1909 is still problematic.

[nukecad]

Well, there have been indications that Win 10 2003 (currently known as 20H1) may be 'released to market' in December 2019, - 3 months early.
(Who knows what they'll call it then?)

Which may help explain why 1909 didn't have new features apart from a couple of mediocre changes?

[crizal]

There's a forum that specifically deals with Windows 10 which I also post on.  Don't know if I can mention it here.  The possible release of 20H1 to OEM's in December to coincide with Azure releases has been mentioned.  Not known is whether it'll be released to the general public at the same time changing the release schedule or if we, the user, will still get updates in the Spring and Fall.  Another possibility mentioned on several forums is that there will only be one large Feature Update each year, with a minor upgrade like 1909 six months later.  Guess we all will find out soon enough.

[hazelnut]

I followed your posts about this issue on tenforums.

When you do a clean install of 1909 from an iso either on (dvd or usb) did you delete all other partitions when setting it up?

I would recommend that so you just have one big disk size left and Windows installs 1909 and the partitions required itself. I find this often works for the best experience of a new install without niggling issues.

After all you have  Macrium 

(Quick plug here, 50% off until 2nd Dec)

https://www.macrium.com/products/home?cbtcouponcode=AY8-6P7-FQL&campaignid=v7-126b

 

[nukecad]

8 hours ago, crizal said:

Another possibility mentioned on several forums is that there will only be one large Feature Update each year, with a minor upgrade like 1909 six months later.  Guess we all will find out soon enough.

Makes marketing sense, you don't want to risk a (another) buggy feature update in the run up to Black Friday and Christmas, that could affect sales.

[crizal]

4 hours ago, hazelnut said:

I followed your posts about this issue on tenforums.

When you do a clean install of 1909 from an iso either on (dvd or usb) did you delete all other partitions when setting it up?

I would recommend that so you just have one big disk size left and Windows installs 1909 and the partitions required itself. I find this often works for the best experience of a new install without niggling issues.

After all you have  Macrium 

(Quick plug here, 50% off until 2nd Dec)

https://www.macrium.com/products/home?cbtcouponcode=AY8-6P7-FQL&campaignid=v7-126b

 

Very good point.  If I decide to try another clean install of 1909, I'll make sure other partitions are deleted.  I may just take a break from this for a few days to clear the cobwebs.  Thanks for your suggestions.

[Andavari]

I've always seen two services listed in Reliability Monitor's history that have "stopped working" TPMProvisioningService.exe ("Intel iCLS Client") and ZeroConfigService.exe ("Intel WiFi). I just ignore it because they're out-of-sight thus out-of-mind and they seem to do what they need then "stop working" supposedly. And it hasn't been something a clean install can fix.

[crizal]

Many thanks to @hazelnut, @nukecad and @Andavari for a lot of good ideas, suggestions and information.  I may have stumbled on something which I'm testing out now.  Doing the upgrade from 1903 to 1909 via Windows Update yet again, I took a very close look at the error in Reliability History.  As we know, it says "Runtime Broker has stopped working".  Delving into the details, it mentions that the faulting module is something called settingsenvironment.desktop.dll.  Runtime Broker is most often associated with apps and by the name of the faulting module, I immediately started thinking graphics -- can't explain why but I did.

My computer has been updated from the Intel legacy graphics driver to the new DCH driver.  Installation of the DCH driver also installs the new Intel Graphics Command Center app from the MS Store.  That also uninstalled the old Intel Graphics Control Center which doesn't work with DCH.  On a hunch, I uninstalled the Command Center.  So far, no errors.  Could simply be that app and I have read in the past that some people have been having issues with it.

If this holds up for a few days, that's the answer.  I won't miss the Command Center as there's nothing in there I need.  I'll be posting back later in the week and hopefully this detective game will have been solved.  

[nukecad]

Good to hear that you seem to have found the issue - and even better found a solution.

[hazelnut]

An early Xmas present for crizal !!

Good troubleshooting 

[crizal]

@hazelnut, @nukecad, @Andavari -- problem officially solved.  Final solution was to clean install 1909, uninstall the Intel Graphics Command Center and then reinstall it.  I don't really need it but it's there and working if I do  Yes, an early holiday present!  Thanks again to all for your valuable insight.   

[crizal]

It's back!  "Runtimebroker.exe has stopped working" error reappeared in Reliability History as of this morning -- exact same issue I reported a few weeks back.  Only this time, four other people I know who are on Win10 1909 also started getting it this morning as well.  What's bizarre is everyone's computer is working fine.  Programs and apps open and work properly and there's no problem restarting -- but everything done sets the error.  Obviously something changed in Windows behind-the-scenes for some people and the fix that worked for me earlier no longer resolves it.

Anyone running Win10 1909 -- please check Reliability History and see if you're getting the error as of today.  If your computer's been off for any length of time, it might have to run for a bit to see if this eventually catches you.

[hazelnut]

Not getting the error.

( I feel left out!!)

[crizal]

4 minutes ago, hazelnut said:

Not getting the error.

( I feel left out!!)

This is really getting strange.  Some people have it, others don't.  Doesn't matter what brand computer or configuration.  Thanks for checking.  I will press on with my investigation.

[Andavari]

I also don't have that error for RunTime Broker. Still have the other two I previously listed.

Whatever those services are having errors with one would think with a bunch of error reports being sent to Microsoft that they'd know about it and probably do something, then again if they don't make the drivers for it perhaps it's out of their control. One thing to make sure of is to try the PC drivers from the OEM manufacturer of the PC since they may have a custom build of the drivers - which may be out-dated however.

[crizal]

@Andavari -- HP uses customized drivers and the support page for my unit is grossly outdated.  In fact, the latest integrated graphics driver HP shows is 2 years old and the driver for my dedicated graphics card has never been updated by HP and it's 4 years old.  Can't get the customized drivers from Intel or AMD but when I did the clean install to 1909, Windows Update put in the last Intel drivers available before they started with the DCH graphics drivers.

As a matter of fact, the Runtimebroker error deals with Microsoft Store apps and they are working and updating properly.  The wording on the errors is so ambiguous I'm starting to think troubleshooting is not worth the time and effort.  Since everything's working, just ignore it and see what the next Feature Update does.

[nukecad]

I'm not seeing that error either.

Quote

the Runtimebroker error deals with Microsoft Store apps

That may be why I'm not seeing it, I don't use the store.
I dont even have a MS account anymore, I did have but deleted it and now use a local account.

[crizal]

@nukecad --Thanks for checking.  I'm also using a local account and only a few of the store apps that came with Win 10 and they are working properly.  So far, the only common denominator I can even remotely suspect has nothing to do with store apps -- Intel Rapid Storage Technology.  My computer came with it but when I did the clean install to 1909, it was removed by Windows.  And, one of the people I know who got the problem today still has RST in program files but Device Manager is now showing Windows is using the Microsoft driver (it's under Storage Controllers) and not Intel's.  This is certainly elusive.