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Yahoo Toolbar, New Crap For Crap Cleaner?


GreenWhite

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I'm amazed that people are so concerned that the installer "barely fits" on a floppy, or might take a few mins to download on dialup.

 

As for being reluctant to recommend it to a friend, just send them the link to the "more versions" page, or directly to the slim version.

 

And I honestly think that it's good that some users will install the toolbar and support CCleaner's development. Sure, an open source cleaner would be great, with regular updates and support for hundreds of apps with dozens of customisation options.

 

But as the people who suggested that are probably aware, making something for free is only appealing up to a point. So why are people so mad about CC getting some income?

 

Would you really pay $10 for it if the next version was not free?

Or would you stick with 1.27 and complain about the "spirit" of CCleaner, whatever that means.

 

Come on people, this is a good tool with a slim version. I still agree that the "hidden" versions being called "advanced" is a bit unfair, but we're all able to make our own choices and dig past the one-click browsing instinct.

 

Aren't we?

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Would you really pay $10 for it if the next version was not free?

Or would you stick with 1.27 and complain about the "spirit" of CCleaner, whatever that means.

 

 

 

 

 

 

It could be either open source or having a freeware and an alternate pay version with enhanced features.

 

The donation tab should be retained for extra funds.

 

Not like sneaking the toolbar in.

 

To your question, I would but there should be a freeware version for marketing purposes.

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It could be either open source or having a freeware and an alternate pay version with enhanced features.

 

The donation tab should be retained for extra funds.

 

Not like sneaking the toolbar in.

 

To your question, I would but there should be a freeware version for marketing purposes.

 

 

I like donationWare, but I never donate. I bought WinRAR and PGP, $30 each or less, but they offer a lot more than CC in my opinion (if you use command line RAR for automation etc).

 

Look at Quicktime. Who ever upgrades to Pro? OK, some people do, but there's always the argument that "I can do (almost) as much for free with tools X Y and Z". And that argument only exists with commercial products.

 

An optional toolbar is hardly sneaking in, unless you pay no attention when using your PC. In which case it could be suggested that you deserve all the spyware and other clutter that may accumulate from careless computing.

 

And for those who do get the toolbar installed, what will they do?

1. "Oh, a toolbar" (click) "uninstalled!" (or hidden)

2. "Hmm, a toolbar" (click click click) "CCleaner reinstalled, no toolbar!"

3. "Damn, a toolbar" (continues using IE with 1cm less screen real estate and no real drop in quality of life)

4. "Oooh, spyware?" (click click) "Good old spyware removal tools, glad they're free too!"

 

or could it be

 

5. "AAAAARGH!!! SPYWARE!!! EVIL!!! I HAVE NO IDEA IF THIS IS SENDING MY DNA TO THE FEDS! MUST..... SUE.... CREATOR.... OF.... EXCELLENT...... PROGRAM......!"

 

Just how delicate are these CCleaner users?

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5. "AAAAARGH!!! SPYWARE!!! EVIL!!! I HAVE NO IDEA IF THIS IS SENDING MY DNA TO THE FEDS! MUST..... SUE.... CREATOR.... OF.... EXCELLENT...... PROGRAM......!"

 

Just how delicate are these CCleaner users?

 

Your title of Newbie fits you well, as it is very obvious that you have not extensively used CCleaner. Most of the people on this forum have been using it since its creation, and for us, it hurts to see CCleaner sell out. CCleaner was once totally built around its users, and now this is no longer the case.

 

It starts out with "little" things, like more than doubling the size of the installer with adware. Next, CCleaner will be flashing adds for other programs. Then, CCleaner will be trying to contact Google for dynamic adds. And then, it will most likely become commercial. Perhaps this is overboard, but it is obvious that this is no longer about the people. It is about the money.

 

It isn't "how many times can this be downloaded because it is a great product"; it is "how many times can this be downloaded so that more money can be made". 740k isn't that much space in the big scheme of things, but it is the principle of matter that gets me upset. Makes me wonder, 'Where is CCleaner headed?'

 

Also, how do you think the people who have donated all this time feel? Apparently, their money didn't mean too much, now did it?

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Your title of Newbie fits you well, as it is very obvious that you have not extensively used CCleaner. Most of the people on this forum have been using it since its creation, and for us, it hurts to see CCleaner sell out. CCleaner was once totally built around its users, and now this is no longer the case.

 

It starts out with "little" things, like more than doubling the size of the installer with adware. Next, CCleaner will be flashing adds for other programs. Then, CCleaner will be trying to contact Google for dynamic adds. And then, it will most likely become commercial. Perhaps this is overboard, but it is obvious that this is no longer about the people. It is about the money.

 

It isn't "how many times can this be downloaded because it is a great product"; it is "how many times can this be downloaded so that more money can be made". 740k isn't that much space in the big scheme of things, but it is the principle of matter that gets me upset. Makes me wonder, 'Where is CCleaner headed?'

 

Also, how do you think the people who have donated all this time feel? Apparently, their money didn't mean too much, now did it?

 

 

Thanks for the snap judgment, I've been using CCleaner since 2004. Added some apps to my config, recommended it to anyone who'll listen, run it daily, upgrade as soon as new versions are available (waited for slim, knew it was being made unlike some users who kept moaning on the forum), love it and trust it.

 

Way to go. No, really, I'm impressed by your insight. Should I be impressed that you have posted 670+ times in under 2 months? That's over 10 posts a day, no wonder you are so emotional about this. If you have nothing else to get upset about, you are very lucky.

 

The "newbie" label means I was only just motivated to register and join this pathetic debate because I think it's plain wrong to bite the hand that feeds you. CCLEANER OWES YOU NOTHING, and the changes that have just happened are still optional.

 

CCleaner is not biting the hand that feeds it, since most of us (me included) are parasite users, not donating, and now some parasites are, bizarrely, wishing that its creators hadn't realised they can make a few cents.

 

Your extremist predictions may come true - and I'd be sad to see such a future - but so what? I've never stated that I am happy that the Y! bar was added, just that it's pretty feeble to get all self-righteous about it. And yes, I agree that donaters may feel hard done by, but maybe they got mail saying "here's a link to the version you deserve". Or maybe as donaters we can expect they have the brain power to look beyond Tucows for their software, and get the slim version.

 

Put simply, if CCleaner gets another 14m downloads and each one raises just 1 cent, that's $140,000. Personally I think it deserves that kind of money, if not significantly more, and it would not be likely to get it from donations. Just maybe, those donations that were sent simply weren't enough to support development and hosting of CC.

 

And so what if after installing we get a page saying "Try WinZIP, try WinAMP, use RealPlayer, look at McAfee products"??? As with the Y! bar, we can say "hey, no thanks", but just maybe someone will go "oh yeah, a firewall", click the link and help the product get more funds.

 

Hell, we could all just install everything on offer to help CCleaner get money, then uninstall it. And clean up the temp files and reg entries with our favourite tool.

 

To sum up: Experienced user joins pathetic debate, not keen on Y! bar but gets flamed for supporting programmer's need for funds, gets pulled into juvenile flame war, still wants CCleaner to be a source of income for developer, still thinks some users invest too much emotion in the whole thing, still amazed that users are personally insulted by something from which they can OPT OUT.

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Thanks for the snap judgment, I've been using CCleaner since 2004. Added some apps to my config, recommended it to anyone who'll listen, run it daily, upgrade as soon as new versions are available (waited for slim, knew it was being made unlike some users who kept moaning on the forum), love it and trust it.

In that case, I apologize for assuming you weren't an experienced user. Obviously you are.

 

To sum up: Experienced user joins pathetic debate, not keen on Y! bar but gets flamed for supporting programmer's need for funds, gets pulled into juvenile flame war, still wants CCleaner to be a source of income for developer, still thinks some users invest too much emotion in the whole thing, still amazed that users are personally insulted by something from which they can OPT OUT.

 

I will note that I never have and never will initiate a flame war. You are the one who made this obnoxious comment:

5. "AAAAARGH!!! SPYWARE!!! EVIL!!! I HAVE NO IDEA IF THIS IS SENDING MY DNA TO THE FEDS! MUST..... SUE.... CREATOR.... OF.... EXCELLENT...... PROGRAM......!"

 

Just how delicate are these CCleaner users?

No less rude than my reply, now is it? Now do you still think I started this? :rolleyes:

 

Regardless of who started the debate and who flamed who, I do love a good debate, and other than certain comments you have made, you have given everyone that: a good debate. So thanks.

 

But I still disagree with you because:

 

CCleaner is not staying to the standards it has set for itself. I realize these standards are very high, because CCleaner is a fine program, but still...

 

CCleaner has always received compliments and free advertising from people such as myself, so to act as though I am here for the sole purpose of degrading this app is not true at all. I have loved all versions of CCleaner and have never had any complaints in the past. I have offered suggestions, but a suggestion is not a complaint. I will admit that I have complained about the introduction of this toolbar, and I am not ashamed of that. I do feel that it is a poor addition to an otherwise amazing program, and I do feel that it has let a lot of people down, and for good reason.

 

Finally, what upsets me most is the way this entire ordeal has been set up. I feel that many people have been tricked and are continuing to be tricked into getting something they don't want: a toolbar. This is not an honest way to make money. The Basic and Slim versions should be as easily accessible as the Standard Build, and there is just no excuse for that. If he wants to continue to offer the toolbar-carrying version, so be it, but don't hide the other versions! I realize the people on this forum are perfectly capable of telling the difference between versions, but most general users will not know how. I don't like anything that is sneaky, as you will realize by reading other posts I have made, and this is definitely sneaky.

 

EDIT: And by the way, yes I have made a lot of posts in a relatively short amount of time, but most of them are spent answering questions or having my questions answered. And of course, I have some silly posts in the Lounge, but those never hurt anybody. :D

 

I try to keep my posts as concise, useful, and relevant as possible, so it isn't like those posts were spam. And I do enjoy posting on this forum. This has basically replaced the time I would spend playing video games. I'm sure that you have some recreational activities which you participate in as well, correct?

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Fair points there, I'm sure we both have social lives and "hobbies" (though that make it sound like we both paint glass all day...).

 

And yes, my heavy-on-the-caps "Point 5" could be read without a comedy tone of voice, so I guess it takes 2 to tango. In this case, the tango was a little close to a flame war. And I'll half accept that responsibility....... much as it's always tough to admit fault.

 

I guess we'll just end up differing on the toolbar thing. I wouldn't recommend anyone goes anywhere except for the manufacturer's homepage for software, even if they use Tucows etc. to find it. It's just not polite, and in some cases just not safe. And I think people need to read more instructions, so if we want another build we can find it, or after the (tiny) inconvenience of a larger download, we can install just-what-we-want.

 

Since upcoming Y! bar enhancements actually involve anti-spyware features that could prevent malware getting installed (bearing in mind that CC doesn't do AdAware's job), maybe we could start a new debate on the evilness of Y!??? Maybe not, it wouldn't be safe in the current climate :)

 

I think ultimately it's up to MrG to market his tool however he wants, and by releasing just the Y! version on mirrors he might increase traffic to his site (since that's where we're all aiming people!), which may get more clicks on the FileHippo links, which could also raise money.

 

I read elsewhere a complaint that he doesn't post on the forum except for announcements - and why should he? He might well work a 60 hour week in a cleaning job for all I know, coding at 3am to ease the insomnia, or he might be partying all day on the proceeds of his Y! deal (j/k :) ), so why spend time fielding comments and questions?

 

Whatever he's up to, good luck to him. People who strike on good ideas (or saleable ideas, like that damn million dollar homepage) shouldn't be penalised for it. If I set up a blog about - for example - last minute available flights, and lots of executives go there, am I evil if I do a deal so that I get paid for click-through purchases, or if I advertise an airline? Now if I set up a blog that is just ads, and set up scripts to make fake clicks, that would be evil...

 

So apologies for al the "grrr" and let's keep recommending CC-Slim. Maybe those Open Source advocates should write CCleanerCleaner, to get rid of the extras...

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Maybe those Open Source advocates should write CCleanerCleaner, to get rid of the extras...

 

:lol:

 

Fine points as well. I doubt I will ever be comfortable with this toolbar addition, or any like it that may be added in the future, but you have given some insights into areas I had basically overlooked, so I do appreciate that. I suppose we have to agree to disagree. And I accept the other 50% of the fault when it comes to the unpleasantries. :)

 

On another note, you'll probably see me on here a lot, due to the fact that I work second shift. Most people don't want to hang out at 11:30 PM; no idea why. :D

 

Keep up the informative posts!

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the yahoo toolbar is really crap...has Crap Cleaner really become so crap?...

i expect many freeware suggestion site to remove ccleaner until at least yahoo toolbar is gone...ccleaner should be cleaning useless stuff not install useless stuff...if thing don't change...i may have to change too...

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I dislike the toolbar also. I uninstalled first download and went for the middle-weight version. Maybe if more users made the donation this would not be necessary, and yes, I donated. :rolleyes:

 

 

 

Donations help.

 

But then how sure are you there will be no toolbar assuming CCleaner has a fairly high percentage of donors.

 

This is money we are talking about here. Very few complain about having enough or too much. Suffice to say, no minimum limits or requirements. No way to measure the level of human greed.

 

The question is if you are dedicated enough.

 

Has it ever dawned on you that perhaps CCleaner has not only been relying on donations for survival, and that all along someone has already been funding the project?

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I use Yahoo e-mail, maps, YIM, etc. although I distrust this company since they are sharing their bed with G.W.B. and his likes. I'm also upset that CCleaner has teamed up wtih Yahoo, but I can see why this happend... it is our fault because a lot of us free loaders don't donate some of the hard earned money we have or give any chump change we have in our pockets to small freeware companies such as Spybot S&D, SpywareBlaster, CCleaner, etc.

 

I wonder how many CCleaner users out of all who benefit from this product have donated money in order to keep this product free at no charge and independent of big money corporations like Yahoo? Probably a very few CCleaner users actually donate to show their gratitude and satisfaction with CCleaner while the majority of us have not.

 

How many of us in this thread who are complaining and wary about Yahoo and CCleaner teaming up have made a donation before this happend? If great products are to be free for us and independent of big corporations then we have to help keep it this way by consistently giving donations so that program developers can support themselves, their families and pay their bills or else they will have to parter up with Yahoo, Google, MSN, etc.

 

Until you have made a donation, don't complain when its too late.

 

I bet most freeware users don't donate to Spybot S&D, AdAware SE, etc. but take advantage of these great free products. If we want great products to be independent of greedy corporate ownership we should donate a reasonable sum at least once or twice a year if our economic status permits us to do so or else we will continue to see Microsoft Corp, Yahoo, etc. swallowing up freeware products and later putting price tags $$$ on these once freeware products which is something I'm certain alot of us would not like to see.

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  • Moderators

Even if every person donated enough to pay for the web services, etc., that support CCleaner you still can't discount that big companies like Yahoo! have power and if they were to see an application that they liked they could very well buy it.

 

...one could also say if such good freeware were transformed into open source software allot of complaining would never take place, hence the inclusion of s**t like the Yahoo toolbar may not ever get included. My take on freeware is that it's closed source software that could one day become commercial software which happens allot.

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Even if every person donated enough to pay for the web services, etc., that support CCleaner you still can't discount that big companies like Yahoo! have power and if they were to see an application that they liked they could very well buy it.

 

...one could also say if such good freeware were transformed into open source software allot of complaining would never take place, hence the inclusion of s**t like the Yahoo toolbar may not ever get included. My take on freeware is that it's closed source software that could one day become commercial software which happens allot.

 

 

 

"Nothing is free"

 

I listen to both 'free' commercial and non-commercial media specifically radio. Neither of them are free because nothing is free. Almost verything has a price tag and monetary value to it. "Free" Commercial radio bombards us with a lot of spam commercials but thats why its "free" because most big corporations and some smaller businesses finance it for us so they can bombard us with their spam. "Free" Non-comercial radio has far less spam commercials because it is either not corporate owned and financed by powerful corporations, instead it is operated and owned by independent non=profit organizations and mostly financed by local, statewide and national communities who donate or pay for public radio to be "free" from big corporate influence, ownership, propaganda, spam, etc. But when donations decrrease or and fall short to keep non-commercial free public radio available to us, then what sometimes happens is this... corporations come in and pick up the tab and therefore have a stake in it. Same thing applies to public freeware such as CCleaner, Spybot S&D, etc.,... if we don't continually donate to keep them "free" for the public to use, they eventually will be bought off by Bill Gates, Yahoo, Google, etc. So don't expect something for nothing.

 

Let's say there's 50,000 of us in the U.S. who use public freeware such as CCleaner, another 50,000 from U.K, anothr 50,000 from Austrail.. etc., this would total 150,000+ users, and out of this total, lets say half of these users were to make a U.S. $5.00 donation each year...you multiply 75,000+ donors who each make a $5 dollar donation would enable an independent freeware company to make a good profit thus ensuring their financial independence and our continual "free" use of public freeware.

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All good points that make allot of sense.

 

BTW, you created an interesting user name that I don't think you'll be forgetting soon. :P

 

 

LoL I don't think I will forget it, its too easy to remember

 

At least it still free and if you download the slim version as opposed to the other versions of CCleaner then should still be able to use the authentic CCleaner because Slim version CCleaner doesn't include Yahoo toolbar and uses up very little room on a pc.

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  • 2 months later...

I just returned to update an old version of CCleaner, and I was really disappointed to see Yahoo! Toolbar chucked into the installer (which many novices will just skip thru); it's optional but it's there. BSplayer is another prog I looked to update recently and found even worse crap included - is this an unfortunate trend starting?

 

Fortunately someone linked to the "slim" versions (half the damn size, too!), but they're not easily found. A shame. Make sure you keep these versions or lose your user-base.

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I agree, this Yahoo! toolbar sucks and its just dumb bundle junkware with software.

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  • 10 months later...

Uhmm.. noob here. I've accidentally added the yahoo toolbar and now can't seem to remove it. CC used to be able to remove everything... any ideas?

 

Yeah I went through all the normal channels of removing unwanted software/items/etc but had no luck. I did finally remove by using the addon's located in the tools menu in Firefox. All my addons are listed including yahoo toolbar which then allows you to uninstall. I was quite surprised that it was listed in the CCleaner add/remove list. Regardless, I still love CCleaner. It rocks! Again, thx for everyones help.

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How close have we examined the ccleanersetup.exe files?

All the way back to cc133setup, ytb2.exe was included in the $temp directory and the setup file size is 1459KB. Version 1.36 has ytb2.exe as well,ytb2.exe is 978KB in size,uncompressed.

Version 1.38 "Full" setup file size is 2623KB,with ytb3.exe is 2188KB, uncompressed.

Version 1.38 "SLIM" is 450KB. In cc138setup.exe, there are 32 language files ranging from 12KB to 23KB for a total of 645 KB, these files are uncompressed.

The Yahoo! Tool Bar is ytb3.exe and is 2188KB, uncompressed.

In the slim setup.exe for v1.38 there is only the one language file, the lang-1033.dll.

The MD5 Hash Check Sum values are the same,as expected.

86F6CC239F7D981B7E399D6C3055035A CCleaner.exe full 589KB.

86F6CC239F7D981B7E399D6C3055035A CCleaner.exe slim 589KB.

I originally started using with version 1.33.

The current version 1.38, I installed w/o the toolbar.

So what does this mean?

You decide but seems to me like sometimes we complain to much and the complaint should not be the inclusion of the Yahoo! Tool Bar but only setup file size,which is a combination of the newer ytb3.exe and all language options. When you run the "FULL" setup file, the first thing it asks is "Which Language" and only installs the one selected, the other language files are not used or coppied to the computer.

When the "SLIM" setup is run,it simply asks if you "want to run this program"

Maybe we should ask for "SLIM" versions on all future releases.

We still have the choice on What options to install, we are still in control. The martians haven't landed yet.

 

Upon further inspection, Yahoo! Tool Bar was included starting way way back on February 7, 2006 in version 1.27.255 Beta. It included ytb.exe.

 

I can't believe there is so much complaining over an extra click to not have Yahoo! Tool Bar installed. After all it's FREE. I guess they could make it shareware with a fee to save us all a click. We have to learn not to be lazy and carefully read before clicking. The Eagles had a great song that applies, "Get Over It".

 

(Used 7Zip, www.filehippo.com, to view the files and www.2brightsparks.com free "hash on click" for hash check sums.)

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i get that you think CCleaner has sold out but the fact is it is a top little app, i have been using it for a while now and have never had a single problem with it. i couldnt care less how big the installer is it isnt huge anyway,

and if it helps keep this app alive im all for it. if you feel betrayed i think its tuff titty you are all going on like spoilt little kids, do you think freeware developers live off scotch mist or something. you should be gratefull that these people spend alot of there time creating these applications for our benefit and then give it to us free of charge. they even provided the slim options for you, they bent over backwards by the look of it and you are still throwing your dummies out the pram

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  • 3 months later...
I thought I should register just to try to calm all the complainers:

 

The toolbar is OPTIONAL, both at the time of download and the time of install. It can be removed after installation, its existence will probably earn a little cash so that CCleaner keeps going strong.

 

I agree that including any bloatware is a shame, but would you rather the app died if money was short? Just go to http://www.CCleaner.com/downloadbin.asp?f=1 (no toolbar) or http://www.CCleaner.com/downloadbin.asp?f=2 (no toolbar, English only) and you get the same small installer and trouble-free program as you ever did.

 

I also agree that all versions should be prominent, but then again as a UK user of Firefox/Thunderbird on Mac & PC I am used to looking on the "Other versions and languages" page. The web will never be tailor made for everyone.

 

Another point, which someone made regarding Google's toolbar, is that some people like toolbars. Not me, probably not you, but I'd bet that at least one CCleaner user actually had the Y! toolbar already, despite wanting to clean other junk off their system. The two aren't mutually exclusive in daily life. Also many ISPs (inc. mine) hijack Outlook and IE with their own branding/toolbars/search boxes/ads/bloatware WITH NO OPT OUT when you install their settings or broadband modem drivers.

 

(Yes, you can probably set up any ISP by hand, with a list of servers and the manufacturer's drivers, but you see my point)

 

To all those who think they have the ultimate clean system: Have you removed unused .BMP background tiles from your Windows directory? How about 0.log and clock.avi? Do you have any empty or obsolete Program Files folders or AppData folders from old apps, or old versions?

 

CCleaner does a good job, can't we just use the version we want and be happy?

 

I realize this is an old thread, however...

 

Having used CCleaner for 2, maybe even 3 years now, I'm well acquainted with the update/install process. When I upgraded to v 1.41.544 a couple of nights ago, I never saw the option to install or not the Yahoo toolbar. Granted, I was tired, I could have missed it....but I do programming for a living, and am at my computer nearly all my waking hours. Installing programs is 2nd nature to me. So if I missed it, either the "opt out" wasn't there, or it's so obtuse that the average user wouldn't catch it.

 

As to seeing the project die from lack of money....there's a simple solution, that doesn't involve basically prostituting your product, and packaging it with the very CRAP we're trying to get rid of. CHARGE FOR IT, like any other developer of good software! That way you get to retain your reputation AND maintain a healthy bottom line.

 

Having a Yahoo toolbar automatically installed, when the user didn't ASK for it, isn't any different than spyware or malware. I would expect better from CCleaner.

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