Facebook listens

[hazelnut]

This is worth a read any of you Facebook users.

 

Bet most folk have no idea what they have agreed to.

 

http://www.infowars.com/facebook-wants-to-listen-to-your-phone-calls

[TheWebAtom]

They're permission warnings auto-generated from detected API calls, not a legally binding TOS. The whole article is farcial FUD.

 

Not surprising considering it was written by a far-right conspiracy theorist.

[hazelnut]

So you saying that Facebook doesn't ask for agreement to do this?

 

Listen to calls etc?

 

It doesn't do any of the things mentioned?

[TheWebAtom]

No, I'm saying it's an API permission, not a TOS.

 

It's a little hard to explain; but I'll give it a shot:

 

The new Facebook Messenger app can be configured as the default handler for SMS messages.

 

In the app's code, it would do something like this:

import android.telephony.SmsManager;
SmsManager facebookapp = new SmsManager();

That allows the app to interact with the SmsManager API. As soon as that is imported, Android will give the standard warning for SMS access. In the manifest, it looks like this:

<uses-permission android:name="android.permission.SEND_SMS" />

A "This app can access and send SMS messages, which could incur a data charge" warning will now appear when you install this app. Even though it doesn't actually do either of those things.

 

It's basically a warning saying "this app has access to the API which contains the SMS messaging code"

 

The "This app can listen through your microphone and record calls" warning simply means that it uses some code from the Telephony API. The newest version of Facebook Messenger allows you place VOIP calls through the app; which would require a permission to use the microphone API.

 

Of course, there's always a chance that Facebook is a front for government surveillance. But if that were the case, they probably wouldn't implicitly mention it in the manifest file. You'd also notice pretty major battery usage if the app suddenly started recording and transmitting the data from all its sensory interfaces.

[login123]

Well even if it doesn't do all that stuff, it could, right? 

Close enough. 

No offense, Shane, but there it is. 

I am not a conspiracy theorist.  Since Snowden its no longer just a theory. 

[TheWebAtom]

Well even if it doesn't do all that stuff, it could, right? 

 

That's like me calling you a murderer because, hypothetically, you have the physical capability to do it.

[login123]

That's like me calling you a murderer because, hypothetically, you have the physical capability to do it.

 

Or, conversly, like saying I'll just leave my door open 'cause I trust everybody. 

[TheWebAtom]

Or, conversly, like saying I'll just leave my door open 'cause I trust everybody.

Maybe you're just being practical, realizing that a locked door is only as effective as the weakest pane of glass.

[login123]

Just finished a (very cursory) google search for the facebook messenger app terms of service. 

Found interesting reading, but not the actual TOS. 

Not posting it here, tldnr,  (<<< tekkie abbreviation  ).  

Anyway its probably old news to young facebookies. 

In short, it enables by default a whole new range of "sharing". 

 

Just a few links: 

 

interesting comments:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.facebook.orca

 

Data use policy, long and boring, who'se gonna read all that. . .

https://m.facebook.com/policy.php

 

More Data use policy.  Third paragraph is interesting.

https://m.facebook.com/policy?page=apps&refid=41

 

A few yahooters want their old SMS back.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20131114174825AAxhQyU

 

More or less neutral commentary.

http://www.heavy.com/tech/2013/10/new-facebook-messenger-android-app-features/

 

And my personal favorite, titled

"New Facebook Messenger App Will Let You Contact People Even If You're Not Friends" 

http://www.businessinsider.com/new-facebook-messenger-app-android-2013-10

[TheWebAtom]

"New Facebook Messenger App Will Let You Contact People Even If You're Not Friends"

 

 

Imagine the horror of Facebook releasing a phone app that works just like a telephone!

[login123]

Imagine the horror of Facebook releasing a phone app that works just like a telephone!

 

. . . whether you want to or not . .  .

[TheWebAtom]

You don't have to download it, you know. The built in telephone app will allow you to call people you don't know just fine.

[hazelnut]

At the end of the day Shane both you me and login123 know that Facebook does not respect anyone's privacy.

[TheWebAtom]

Facebook does not respect anyone's privacy.

No argument there! But I think we can all also agree that Facebook hijacking our phones for 24/7 A/V monitoring is far-fetched.

[hazelnut]

No argument there! But I think we can all also agree that Facebook hijacking our phones for 24/7 A/V monitoring is far-fetched.

Our phone are monitored most of the time anyway  

 

Sorry Shane I think Facebook can, and will, do as much as it can to get info about people.

[login123]

You don't have to download it, you know. The built in telephone app will allow you to call people you don't know just fine.

 

At the end of the day Shane both you me and login123 know that Facebook does not respect anyone's privacy.

 

The only issue that nags at me is that most folks may be ignorant (not the same thing as stupid) about the fine print.

Many working folks are neither ignorant nor stupid, just busy.

 

At the risk of being blunt, I must flatly disagree that any data gathering initiative by facebook is far-fetched.  I didn't see anything about hijacking phones 24/7, but did see in Hazelnut's first post the stuff about accessing my phone numbers.   IMHO facebook will do anything they can think of along those lines, as witness the present discussion.   

 

I never did find an original reference to the TOS that says they can access my phone numbers, but what I did find is enough. 

That an established facebook app has now morphed into something that will do this (below) is enough to make me shut down my facebook account.  Have had one for several years, never log in much, gonna shut'er down now. 

 

"When you connect with a game, application or website - such as by going to a game, logging in to a website using your Facebook account, or adding an app to your timeline - we give the game, application, or website (sometimes referred to as just "applications" or "apps") your basic info (we sometimes call this your "public profile"), which includes your User ID and your public information. We also give them your friends' User IDs (also called your friend list) as part of your basic info."

 

You're a super nice person, Shane, and much more knowledgeable than I about such things as this, but I think we shall have to disagree about this.  For my part we'll still be friends. 

[Andavari]

Bet most folk have no idea what they have agreed to.

 

I'll never use that site, on my system it's "face-blocked" via HOSTS, browser ad removers, hardware firewall, etc.

[TheWebAtom]

they can access my phone numbers

Again, that was an API permission. In order to allow the app to register itself to make phonecalls it needs to have permission access the address book. When they asked if I would give them my phone number, I said no. As a result, they do not have my phone number. If they're lying, I will sue. But they're not lying, because if they were everyone would sue and Facebook would cease to exist.

 

We also give them your friends' User IDs (also called your friend list) as part of your basic info.

I use Facebook login on one of my websites. All it provides is a numerical ID, which I can use to query basic, publically available information. Assuming their privacy settings are adequate, the absolute most I can with that data is determine whether two website members also know each other on Facebook. Or maybe retrieve an avatar. 

 

99% of the complaints about Facebook's privacy are due to a lack of technical understanding of why their systems are implemented in such a way. For your own sanity, get your information from reputable security researchers (Team Cymru etc) instead of blogs written by hysteria-inducing nutjobs, such as "InfoWars"

 

There are much bigger threats to privacy (see also: NSA, Las Vegas casinos, shopping malls) than some idiotic social network.

[Alan_B]

Assuming their privacy settings are adequate, the absolute most ...

 

If only that could be true.

 

The problem is that facebook does not have privacy settings - it has publicity/privacy VARIABLES,

and once I set the variables to suit my comfort level,

then FB would "enhance" publicity/privacy by inventing new options and once more over-ride all my choices to their revenue earning defaults.

 

The first time I saw a warning that FB had "enhanced" publicity/privacy I immediately logged in and cancelled their publicity values.

 

The second time I saw a warning I changed my Birth location and D.O.B. and other personal I.D.,

and after a few weeks to allow them to update their backups I closed my account.

But even so a year later FB was still sending me invitations from a stranger who happened to have sent me an email several years earlier.

Obviously that stranger had shared his address book with FB so they could look for his "friends",

and although I had never shared my address book with FB they still found a match when they searched their contact list for all cancelled accounts.

I really doubt that my cancelled account data is deleted, but assume that all original and modified data remains on-line for searching by F.B. at every revenue earning opportunity.