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ishan_rulz

A Possible Solution for all those requesting a built in updater

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egeb7s.png

 

Instead of having a built-in updater, why not a direct download link?

(I know DDLs are bad, but what the hell?)

 

With a little tweaks to the idea, it might be a good IMO.

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I know what you are getting at ishan.

 

Me personally though, I like to see where and what I'm downloading.

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Instead of having a built-in updater, why not a direct download link?

(I know DDLs are bad, but what the hell?)

"Here is a pop-up with a friendly warning that I have 173 infections and should click HERE

I must obey because CCleaner was better when I clicked it's HERE yesterday" ! ! !

 

A novice might have a friend install CCleaner, and should be encouraged to practice safe computing.

His computer is already at risk from his ignorance, CCleaner should not compound the problem.

 

Regards

Alan

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That text could easily be overlooked.

 

Yes, it could. But the update text already built into CCleaner could be overlooked as well.

 

So far as being afraid you cannot see what you are downloading, then why are you worried? Don't most "updaters" for programs show the name of the EXE or file being downloaded, in addition to a progress bar? If CCleaner.exe is infected when you click the download update button, might it not also be infected if you click the normal way of updating?

 

The internet IS still the internet, right? If they still want you to download so you can have the toolbar option, why not just build that into the updater so the user can keep it checked if they want it, or uncheck it?

 

Am I missing anything here?

 

Thanks!

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So far as being afraid you cannot see what you are downloading, then why are you worried? Don't most "updaters" for programs show the name of the EXE or file being downloaded, in addition to a progress bar? If CCleaner.exe is infected when you click the download update button, might it not also be infected if you click the normal way of updating?

Some of us are serious at protecting ourselves, our computers, our information,

and this requires Due Diligence.

If we have with Due Diligence authorised our software to auto-update, then it may happen at an inconvenient time, but we have previously evaluated and accepted the risks.

 

If I am required to click a link,

that tells me that some external entity wants to do something that would be blocked by my default security.

It might be obtaining my full authority for :-

making my life better;

recruiting me into a Botnet;

installing a keylogger;

installing Explorer.exe.

Just because you read Explorer.exe on the label does not mean you get Explorer.exe when you open the can.

 

Years ago I read that a new breed of pop-up had a "click to cancel" which would steal my full authority to unleash what it came to deliver.

I immediately recognised that it could also steal my authority if I clicked the red 'X' in the top right corner.

I have never been click happy since.

 

For a year or so I worried about an imaginary threat, but suddenly it was no longer imaginary.

 

"Click to Update CCleaner" is possibly safe today, but for how much longer ?

 

Regards

Alan

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CCleaner can make it as secure as possible, linking it to Piriform or FileHippo only, I mean, c'mon! :blink:

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Some of us are serious at protecting ourselves, our computers, our information,

and this requires Due Diligence.

If we have with Due Diligence authorised our software to auto-update, then it may happen at an inconvenient time, but we have previously evaluated and accepted the risks.

 

If I am required to click a link,

that tells me that some external entity wants to do something that would be blocked by my default security.

It might be obtaining my full authority for :-

making my life better;

recruiting me into a Botnet;

installing a keylogger;

installing Explorer.exe.

Just because you read Explorer.exe on the label does not mean you get Explorer.exe when you open the can.

 

Years ago I read that a new breed of pop-up had a "click to cancel" which would steal my full authority to unleash what it came to deliver.

I immediately recognised that it could also steal my authority if I clicked the red 'X' in the top right corner.

I have never been click happy since.

 

For a year or so I worried about an imaginary threat, but suddenly it was no longer imaginary.

 

"Click to Update CCleaner" is possibly safe today, but for how much longer ?

 

Regards

Alan

 

"And the sky could well fall in tomorrow, killing us all... More proof less than nothing is needed?

 

Not to be mean, yawn, but aren't they hosted on relatively safe servers? Besides, you should know not to use IE by now! Put on your protection while surfing the web! Use Firefox!

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MrDon there is nothing wrong with a person preferring to go to the website direct in order to download an update for a program.

 

I do this myself so that I can look around the site and make sure nothing untoward is happening there, and to pick up any info about other products and services that the vendor provides which I would miss if I just updated automatically..

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I always use Firefox.

One of my reasons for switching away from Scottish Power was that on-line accounting required I.E.

 

When My bank or credit card company advise me of an update to my account,

I naturally use what I have already bookmarked,

no way will I click on any convenient link in an email to visit my bank or register to collect my lottery winnings.

 

I do not know how to judge what servers are safe and what are insecure.

I do not know how any SQL injection attack is done,

I just know that servers for good can be subverted to evil.

 

Regards

Alan

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I always use Firefox.

One of my reasons for switching away from Scottish Power was that on-line accounting required I.E.

 

When My bank or credit card company advise me of an update to my account,

I naturally use what I have already bookmarked,

no way will I click on any convenient link in an email to visit my bank or register to collect my lottery winnings.

 

I do not know how to judge what servers are safe and what are insecure.

I do not know how any SQL injection attack is done,

I just know that servers for good can be subverted to evil.

 

Regards

Alan

 

Allan, if you are getting "update" messages concerning your bank account, it is where someone mass emailed a lot of people the same thing. They are hoping you click it, enter your information so that you can have your account emptied into theirs.

 

DO NOT EVER click account details online.

 

This trick relies on tricking the user into divulging details. This has nothing to do, however, with filehippo or other places. Personal email? Yes! People try to trick you into things all the time. Scammers/spammers. The key here is, to flag them as spam & delete them always.

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Allan, if you are getting "update" messages concerning your bank account, it is where someone mass emailed a lot of people the same thing. They are hoping you click it, enter your information so that you can have your account emptied into theirs.

 

DO NOT EVER click account details online.

 

This trick relies on tricking the user into divulging details. This has nothing to do, however, with filehippo or other places. Personal email? Yes! People try to trick you into things all the time. Scammers/spammers. The key here is, to flag them as spam & delete them always.

To stop this from devolving into something it's not. I don't think Alan_B was talking about getting a Phising scam email. Please keep this thread on topic, Thanks

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As for the security issues involving auto-updating software I don't think it would be any different than antivirus auto updating. I definitely wouldn't think twice about letting CCleaner automatically update itself since it's a very trustworthy program, but with that said I like to have installers stored on my hard disk.

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Nergal

You are correct, thanks.

 

Andavari

If I want an update to the latest CC then I will allow it to happen automatically,

and I would expect CC to ensure that it was getting the code from the correct server

(preferably a known IP address rather than an internet NAME that could be misdirected via a poisoned DNS)

and it should get a known file name and place it in a known place.

 

I would hope that if an internet interception caused CC to think an update was available,

then CC should NOT be deceived into fetching from a malware site any file (regardless of whether the file name was correct),

and even if it was so deceived I would hope that CC would remain in control of where in the system it deposited/installed that file, and what access authority it might bestow upon it.

 

If an internet interception caused CC to display a link that an update was available,

I would be afraid that my click on the link might give my authority to be taken to a place I do not wish and be given something I do not want and have it buried in the heart of my machine.

 

I am concerned about vulnerabilities that :-

are known today ; or

will become known tomorrow after inflicting widespread damage.

 

There was a time when the ultimate danger was an email with a BAT attachment with the command "Format C:\"

I do not know what tomorrow's new danger will be, I just know it will be ! !

 

My sanity is not endangered by my concerns because I have partition images to restore normality,

but I prefer to also keep ahead of the enemy and not fall victim to any malware.

 

Regards

Alan

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If you have a good antivirus and firewall you dont have to worry about such things -_-. I think you all are a bit paranoid about the "builtin updater". A website like piriform isnt going to be hacked just out of nowhere and it is not easy.

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A website like piriform isnt going to be hacked just out of nowhere and it is not easy.

I accept that such hacking is not easy for one with your level of competence,

and I for one have neither the ability nor desire to hack Piriform.

I do not know how to mount an SQL injection attack,

but there are people with special skills who could.

Banking and Credit card handling sites get hacked.

 

I have good A.V. and Firewall - much good may it do me with a "zero day" attack for which there is no signature.

Then I benefit from the "Behavior Blocking" capability of Comodo.

I also have back-up disc partition images I can restore if the system goes belly up.

Malware has never caused me to resort to an image,

but it is nice to know I can recover in 6 minutes when all else fails.

 

Alan

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P.S.

 

Tomorrow's threat arrived a few weeks ago.

.dll-file vulnerabilities.

 

To be precise, the vulnerability has been present for ages,

but only recently have the "good guys" identified a gaping hole in Windows security.

 

Interesting details in

http://windowssecrets.com/comp/100909

 

Alan

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I accept that such hacking is not easy for one with your level of competence,

and I for one have neither the ability nor desire to hack Piriform.

 

What makes you think I don't have the skills to do something like that?

 

P.s. A "free" firewall is not the solution I think. There are paid ones that are much better than comodo and can handle pretty much everything. Without having to click on "accept" or "block" each time a new program runs..

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What makes you think I don't have the skills to do something like that?

 

P.s. A "free" firewall is not the solution I think. There are paid ones that are much better than comodo and can handle pretty much everything. Without having to click on "accept" or "block" each time a new program runs..

 

I did not refer to your skills.

 

I took at face value your statement that it is not easy,

and simply pointed out that what is difficult for you may be easy for others.

 

I have had no problems with Comodo, I am more than happy with it.

 

If Comodo should ever fail, I can always recover by restoring a partition image.

 

I use a partition image to restore my system when :-

1. I want to try an application that is not portable, and after testing I reject and uninstall,

then if it leaves to much junk embedded in the system I restore the O.S. as it was;

2. When a security patch is wrong and a week or so later M.$. issue a new one.

The first attempt a year or two ago at preventing an Autorun malware action was supposed to be a 300 kB fix,

but it added 30 MB in fixing the code plus various C:\WINDOWS\$hf_mig$ and C:\WINDOWS\$NtUninstallKB??????$ stuff.

When M.$. made the second attempt I decided not to waste yet another 30 MB of disc space,

and instead restored the image from before the first 30 MB heap of junk.

Then I plugged in an Autorun CD installation disc from my ISP and Comodo instantly blocked the autorun and asked permission,

so I do not need M.$ to fix their autorun vulnerability.

3. If malware should take over, then a boot-cd will restore an image - no harm done.

That is the theory but in practice Comodo has never let anything through.

I hold partition images on an external drive which is only powered up when I need access to the images,

so even if malware infected all partitions on the system drive,

the Partition Wizard Boot-CD will give me a clean disc and the image restoration Boot-CD will put the whole system back as it was.

 

I like Comodo to ask me about any new program.

No drive-by download or unexpected "freebie" will automatically run without my say so,

and it is a simple matter to switch to "installer" mode when deliberately installing something that would otherwise query every stage of the installation.

 

I doubt that I would sleep at nights if my computer was on-line and your antivirus was freely deciding by itself whether to "accept or block" whatever new stuff might come in from the Internet.

Anything that is "New" will merit my full attention, especially if it only arrived because I clicked on a link that said "register for access to forum" or "CCleaner Update Available Now" !

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On topic: As for the DDL it's a good idea, the toolbar request will still be available so Ccleaners developers won't by-pass users willing to install it giving them a little extra cash.

As sayed in other posts (I didn't read everything to be honest lol but I read a few posts) the text could easially be overlooked, this could be fixed by working with or 2 themes, 1 looking like it does now and a second one with different colors (this woulden't be to hard to code it's a matter of (a simplified idea) "If update "1" theme "1" " and "if update "0" theme "0" " (this ofcourse has a 99% chance of being a code that doesen't work but I didn't read the source code nor do I know the language it's programmed in but the devs will know what i mean by this, another option is changing the Logo in the top right corner to a logo with a red glow and a ! in it (also easially changed in the code).

Just a few suggestions in addition to the DDL in the bottom.

 

offtopic: About the last post, the whole comodo thing. Comodo is an great free app but it is not for beginners, you can simply click "yes" or "no" on everything and you'd still end up with holes in your defence, the fact that firewalls like say Norton Internet Security (or whatever that crap is called now a days) it's build for users that have no clue how to answer sayed questions, this does make it easier to use but it also makes it more vulnerable to attacks etc. because the AI structure in the program decides wich programs are good and wich aren't, having sayed that program requests can be faked and a False Positive will arise opening ports for trojans or what not.

Next to that most built-in virus scanners do a bad job on finding known viruses and do a even worse job on heuristic scans IF that is even included in their program or they could just rely on a cloudscanner making you pretty much vulnerable for 0 day viruses/trojans/ezploits.

The plus points of the firewall in Comodo itself is that it is pretty well programmed by default (i add stuff myself aswell like "block IP IN from all IP where protocol is any" for instance but the basics cover ICMP echo's and pings, Dos attacks and if you select all the extra options fragment controle etc.) wich is honestly really good for a Windows firewall (You can't beat a custom made IPtables linux firewall but this creates a good defence), the problems you are having are with the Defence+ Module wich monitors all the programs trying to access the internet/egistry or other important places, this can be a hassle at first but if you program it well you won't get a popup at all.

 

The new version (4.x) has a sandbox aswell, it needs alot of improvement but will eventually take over the need for programs like sandboxie, as for now it's pretty crappy but the latest "stable" release of comodo isen't more then a RC if you ask me (but then again if you look at microsoft, XP is stable, Longhorn was Alpha, Vista was Beta and Win7 isen't more then a RC itself either (my opinion ofcourse but i'm sure most agree) so it's not to bad for a firewall, it blocks and controles enough to be released as a RC).

 

Well hope that helped :)

 

Greetz,

 

Saint.

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offtopic: About the last post, the whole comodo thing. Comodo is an great free app but it is not for beginners, you can simply click "yes" or "no" on everything and you'd still end up with holes in your defence, the fact that firewalls like say Norton Internet Security (or whatever that crap is called now a days) it's build for users that have no clue how to answer sayed questions, this does make it easier to use but it also makes it more vulnerable to attacks etc. because the AI structure in the program decides wich programs are good and wich aren't, having sayed that program requests can be faked and a False Positive will arise opening ports for trojans or what not.

Next to that most built-in virus scanners do a bad job on finding known viruses and do a even worse job on heuristic scans IF that is even included in their program or they could just rely on a cloudscanner making you pretty much vulnerable for 0 day viruses/trojans/ezploits.

The plus points of the firewall in Comodo itself is that it is pretty well programmed by default (i add stuff myself aswell like "block IP IN from all IP where protocol is any" for instance but the basics cover ICMP echo's and pings, Dos attacks and if you select all the extra options fragment controle etc.) wich is honestly really good for a Windows firewall (You can't beat a custom made IPtables linux firewall but this creates a good defence), the problems you are having are with the Defence+ Module wich monitors all the programs trying to access the internet/egistry or other important places, this can be a hassle at first but if you program it well you won't get a popup at all.

 

The new version (4.x) has a sandbox aswell, it needs alot of improvement but will eventually take over the need for programs like sandboxie, as for now it's pretty crappy but the latest "stable" release of comodo isen't more then a RC if you ask me (but then again if you look at microsoft, XP is stable, Longhorn was Alpha, Vista was Beta and Win7 isen't more then a RC itself either (my opinion ofcourse but i'm sure most agree) so it's not to bad for a firewall, it blocks and controles enough to be released as a RC).

 

Well hope that helped :)

 

Greetz,

 

Saint.

Off topic: No firewall worth its salt is for clueless beginners. Even the Windows built-in firewall in its default settings prompts the user once in a while, and I'd rather remain polite about its "advanced" GUI ;)

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Off topic: No firewall worth its salt is for clueless beginners. Even the Windows built-in firewall in its default settings prompts the user once in a while, and I'd rather remain polite about its "advanced" GUI ;)

 

Agreed, the offtopic topic was that and I quote

 

"P.s. A "free" firewall is not the solution I think. There are paid ones that are much better than comodo and can handle pretty much everything. Without having to click on "accept" or "block" each time a new program runs.."

 

This ofcourse is slightly more then major {EDIT} lol

 

The obviously clueless beginner usually has a slow bandwitdh in the first place so they are pretty much save from: FTP hosting, VPN tunneling, Proxying, etc. etc. (you get the picture) those are the people that use windows firewall (and the promt you get every now and then from windows firewall is just because the comp ran out of coffee and it noticed a glimmer of something trying to access whatever lmao)

 

The best firewall you can have is IPtables installed by yourself (if you know what your doing) or someone else that knows what he/she is doing (just check "Project Honeypot" for the results on open hive OS systems, even without IPtables 90% of the hackers (14 to 18 year old guys/girls messing around with trojans and such because the education they are getting slightly leans towards this (mostly comes from beginner programmers for windows software (because windows is the most used OS so they study that, figures why they get scared by a Mac OS (wich isen't THAT much harder to hack) but just crawl away wen they hit a well configed IPtable.

To be honest, doing a security check on whatever site you pick and passing with full color on windows means atleast all your ports are stealth and ping/ICMP echo requests get bounced back as "nothing there" is pretty rare, I myself never tested it without a Iptable hanging at the source of my connection but it seems like comodo does do a good job. Reading other peoples reviews (the ones that switched from Windows firewall to Comodo or wichever other firewall and think that IPtables are tables that come with Irene and Peter and you can sit your guests on at thanksgiving lol) it seems to work really well even at the factory defaults (let's just call them that), as i stated before I forwarded my own ports and have an IP table running underneath the network (and a ton of more security wich differs on each PC (Lmao i'm paranoid lmao haha)).

 

End of it all, if you have no idea how to config your firewall the best thing you can do is read the forums of your chosen firewall because even a "norton" or a "macfee" have hidden options that give you a better protection, I myself like to monitor everything I do, Accept the policies once wen I agree with them and block the rest, but then again I know what i'm doing.

 

One statement I can make though is if you have no clue what so ever and download a antivirus scanner make sure it atleast has an up to date cloudscanner (even better Heuristic scans on "High"(takes longer, sometimes gives false positives but your sure your protected then).

As for a firewall well idk I like comodo, even the out of the box setup isen't that bad at all but if you decide to use another try to protect yourself from DOS attacks and if possible have your firewall check the packages incomming and outgoing to see if they are the real deal.

 

Well I can go into way more detail for firewall and general security starting from your modem to your computer but this should be enough for the general user that browses around stuff that doesen't really matter.

As a side note if you download stuff with anything like say limewire or bittorrent, try to turn on encryption for multiple reasons wich i'm not going to explain (it won't go any slower or whatever i'm just to lazy to explain it) but the main thing is that your ISP won't squeeze your connection because your "violating" there "user responsible data transfer limit" (there is another word for it wich just won't hit my head at the moment but then again I just got home from the bar lmao).

 

Anyways,

 

Greetz,

 

Saint.

Edited by Nergal
please use a little more restraint in word choice even an edited with a * can be offensive

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Please keep this thread on topic thank you. I'm sure if you want to discuss firewall you can start your own topic.

 

Thanks

(last warning ;) )

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