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Greater Fragmentation after Defragging?

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I've been running Defraggler every three to four weeks for the past year. I generally click "Analyze" both before and after defrag routine, to observe how much has changed. Roughly two thirds the time, the fragmentation appears to decrease by 2% to 10%. The other third, though, the analysis suggests an INCREASE in fragmentation. Like today, for example. My before reading registered 15%, while my after reading registered 27%.

 

So, what's going on here? Are these analysis numbers robust, accurate, and meaningful? Might I actually be worsening my system by using this program? Do I need to adjust some setting somewhere? Has this issue already been discussed on another thread? Any feedback greatly appreciated.

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I came here because I am experiencing the same problem. No good similar threads I could see with a search or solutions? I saw threads where it might leave a few files behind, but not appear to increase fragmentation. These are all very light office users... outlook & word on their computers that's it. Starting fragmentation was 34-40% according to defraggler.

 

I am scheduling jobs on machines in a corporate environment utilizing df.exe. I set it up to run whenever the machine is idle for 5 minutes or more, and to stop when it is no longer idle. I have been setup 4 test users on different machines, and so far when I check on them it appears that the fragmentation goes up 1-2% every day! What gives? These are short scheduled jobs... I need resident background defragmentation that runs non invasively on machines shut down every night. Central deployment without manual intervention is a must, these are just test users. Fixing it manually wont work for a rollout. I am testing on 4 before rolling out to a 150 machine site. If the site tests well we may roll it out to over 1000 machines. Could be the beginning of a beautiful success story but so far just missing the success part

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Can you tell me if the file and fragment count also increases, or is it just the % fragmented figure that goes up?

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Have you tried excluding "System Volume Information" (System Restore) from the defrag?

 

You can't defrag it as it's "files in use", but it will be included in the analasys display.

 

Win7 and Vista also create "Shadow Copies" (connected to System Restore) of files being moved or modified, and defragging is doing just that.

 

Hope that helps.

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I have only been logging test user % fragmentation. I can start to log the count if the first number could be false, I was just thinking it was hand in hand.

 

I use the command "C:\Program Files\utilities\Defraggler\df.exe" C: /ts

 

These are my notes:

 

I do not have starting fragmentation data

 

Last week

Thursday

Tiana 34% fragmentation thurs afternoon

Lisa 40% frag

 

Friday

Tiana 34%

lisa 39%

Anita34%

Pat 36%

 

 

This week

Monday:

tiana 35%

Anita 35%

Lisa (out)

pat 37%

 

Thursday:

tiana % 36

anita % 36

lisa (out)

pat % 37

 

 

Also we currently do not have any vista machines, and windows 7 deployment has not yet started but will need to be compatible.

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@MrRon,

@DennisD,

 

Starting with DF v1.19, DF mixes up the ""Free space defragmentation"" and ""Free space (allow fragmentation)"". Read my replies in the thread mentioned below !!!!

http://forum.pirifor...showtopic=29208

 

The ""Freespace defragmentation"" options also cause the fragmentation to increase.

 

No, DennisD, the files and folders in ""System Volume Information"" always can be defragmented and never are the source of any problems. Even in v1.21.

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@DennisD,

 

No, DennisD, the files and folders in ""System Volume Information"" always can be defragmented and never are the source of any problems. Even in v1.21.

 

Considering that only one poster in this thread has alluded in any way to which operating system they're running, I think that's a pretty unhelpful comment to make.

 

In the context of this thread, that statement should carry some qualification with it.

 

You can't defrag "System Volume Information" in Win 7 or Vista, which either of the first two posters could be running, and they are the posts I replied to.

 

In XP, some files can be locked and deemed as "in use" by Windows.

 

Some 3rd party defraggers have hard wired routines which skip "System Volume Information" files, and IMHO, that's a damn good idea.

 

I've never defragged it on my XP system, as I consider it utterly useless to defrag something which could have some files locked and protected, and which is constantly in flux, and defragging can carry the real risk of a failed "System Restore".

 

I believe that's one part of your system which should be left alone to do what it does.

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I just wanted to post another update.

it has now been weeks since deployment.

I checked number of fragments and looked at the file types:

 

the first 2 users I looked at?

Tiana 37% and 4,854 fragmented files

Lisa 41% and 3,452 files

 

When I look at the files there were a lot of them that were left overs from the initial deployment windows update (silverlight install files, other installer related files, etc) and general use files (outlook.ost, office program files, etc).

 

What do I take from this? its been pretty much doing just about nothing. My solution would not be to run ccleaner or similar because that would only mask the fact that there are many fragmented files, all of which defraggler has not defragmented. This is not limited to a specific directory.

 

My scheduled task is also set to retry for 400 minutes. I can confirm the task is launching and I do see df running in the background. The users are also local admin if that helps.

 

Unless someone else can think of a reason for this to be doing prettymuch absolutely nothing I will probably be looking at ultradefrag next or similar to find what I need.

It's too bad defraggler does not have a good idle time defragmentation scheme for automated maintenance built in.

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I am seeing that when defraggler moves files to the end of the drive it fragments them - it appears to be copying the front of the files to the end and then copies the files backwards. That is, the next part of the file goes before the previous location at the end of the drive thereby fragmenting the files greatly. Not sure why it shouldn't just keep the file defragmented when it moves to the end of the drive or defrag it while moving it to the end. It's really weird logic. If I defrag the files individually, I can get the drive into a state with no fragmented files but will be left with fragmented free space. If I then defrag the drive again it will start to fragment the files as described above as it tries to fill in the free spaces and move things around.

 

I am running v1.21 on Windows 2003 Server and defragging non-system partitioned drives (e.g. D, E etc - i.e. not OS protected) but I have seen this behaviour in other windows OS (XP, VIsta & Win 7)

 

Brian

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I wanted to reply and update that I have resolved my problem and have pleasantly been working successfully with defraggler.

 

When setting up a scheduled task and copying it to other computers it does not work or run due to permissions and security. I am an admin on all machines but setting it up in my name would result in the task actually not starting (I thought it was). My batch file for install and deploy now consists of the following:

 

call dfsetup121.exe /S

copy "Idle Defraggler Defragmentation.job" C:\windows\tasks /y

schtasks /change /tn "Idle Defraggler Defragmentation" /ru system

 

 

By modifying the user account from the terminal to ntsystem it allows it to run with admin priv. properly on every machine without failure. I will now be rolling this out on a larger scale. Hopefully this information helps someone else.

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I've never defragged it on my XP system, as I consider it utterly useless to defrag something which could have some files locked and protected, and which is constantly in flux, and defragging can carry the real risk of a failed "System Restore".

 

I believe that's one part of your system which should be left alone to do what it does.

 

Dennis D, has it ever occurred to you that a failed System Restore may not be caused by defragging them? I ask because recently I was checking a friends wireless Verizon card (which would connect, but user could not surf the internet...).

 

Some of the steps I tried involved checked to be sure Internet Explorer did not set a proxy server (can cause loss of internet), + a few dozen other things. Vista repair option did not fix the internet connection. At least initially till I pulled a few tricks out of my hat. I decided to try a system restore, which restored, but internet still wasn't working. After running the undo system restore, it was successful. Then I tried restoring to another earlier date. Success, but at which point, there are no system restore points after this for whatever reason.

 

The restore points were erased. Not by me, but by Windows Vista. This was on a Vista SP2 system. I wouldn't necessarily blame Defraggler for "corrupting" the restore points just yet, as I have never had it corrupt my XP restore points. I haven't seen it corrupt Vista machine restore points that I use it on yet. I HAVE seen Vista delete restore points AFTER you restore 3 different times... Restore/undo last restore/restore to an earlier restore...

 

At this point, there was no loss of programs or pics/docs on the machine, nor was the internet working. I pulled a couple tricks out of my hat & got the internet working though.

 

Peace!

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I wanted to reply and update that I have resolved my problem and have pleasantly been working successfully with defraggler.

 

When setting up a scheduled task and copying it to other computers it does not work or run due to permissions and security. I am an admin on all machines but setting it up in my name would result in the task actually not starting (I thought it was). My batch file for install and deploy now consists of the following:

 

call dfsetup121.exe /S

copy "Idle Defraggler Defragmentation.job" C:\windows\tasks /y

schtasks /change /tn "Idle Defraggler Defragmentation" /ru system

 

 

By modifying the user account from the terminal to ntsystem it allows it to run with admin priv. properly on every machine without failure. I will now be rolling this out on a larger scale. Hopefully this information helps someone else.

 

That is interesting, tasty... Could you please elaborate a bit more on that? I never really tried doing that yet, so I may not be as familiar with the operations as you just yet.

 

So, you create a batch file, but is that in the same folder as the dfsetup121.exe? Yes?

When it sets up, do you have an option for it not to always check for updates, or does it do that automatically?

 

copy "Idle Defraggler Defragmentation.job" C:\windows\tasks /y <- Does this set up the defragmentation job properly with no user intervention?

schtasks /change /tn "Idle Defraggler Defragmentation" /ru system <- What does the tn & the ru command do?

 

If I like what you have here, I may redo this script, using Win Rar to simplify the process & make it even easier/simpler/faster than a batch file can do it.

Thanks!

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Dennis D, has it ever occurred to you that a failed System Restore may not be caused by defragging them?

 

 

It doesn't really need to occur to me mr don, as I've had plenty of first hand experience of failed System Restores with non defragged System Volume Information files, which is why my first port of call is an ERUNT backup, and then a "no confidence in" System Restore, and because of it's unreliability, an always present and kept up to date Macrium Image backup of my System Drive.

 

For the same reason that I exclude System Volume Information files from a defrag, I never defrag a back-up Disk Image, and I always advise anyone who does, to most definitely verify it again afterwards. You can't verify System Restore points sadly, but wouldn't it be nice if you could do that, and then have confidence in it working as it should.

 

My point was that defragging incomplete System Restore points could to a point be influential in a failed System Restore. JMHO of course.

:)

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and because of it's unreliability, an always present and kept up to date Macrium Image backup of my System Drive.

 

 

I wanted to ad that I don't even go so far as to always trust a harddisk image. For permanent copies, I always use ISO container files, because they always 100% of the time burn back with any program that supports ISO burning, exactly as they were. Great for bootable CD/DVD media.

 

 

Rest of post edited out by moderator. Please keep on topic, and shorten your posts as you have been repeatedly asked to do.

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