WTF is the attraction to app stores?

[Anomaly]

Maybe I'm missing something here but what is the attraction to app stores? This all started with the iphone. The only way to get a program on the phone is through the app store. You browse for it and pay for it and than install it through the app store. Apple controls what goes in the app store and sometimes rejects apps for no good reason. Despite this censorship by Apple and the lack of freedom you have to install apps from any where you want the app store is hugely successful. So much so that the new ipad also has an app store and you suffer from the same restrictions. Due to the success of this system you have all kinds of apps stores popping up. Blackberry has one, Palm has one for their OS, Google Chrome OS will have one I just read. This is insane for many reasons.

 

This is a step backwards not forwards. You lose control over what and where you get your programs. Not only that you can kiss free software goodbye. Most of the good apps cost money and since you can't go else where you are locked in. The most disturbing part is that the user seem to embrace this stupidity. It's unbelievable. Imagine having a Windows machine and the only way to get an app on it was through the app store instead of like now where you can just go to any site you want and install the programs you want and go all free ware if you want. There is talk now that a future version of Mac OS X will be a closed system just like the iphone and ipad. Who knows where this crap will stop but it's very disturbing that it's happening and sickening that there are so many monkeys out there actually embracing this trash.

 

Does anybody else see this shift happening? Does it disturb you and have you concerned with the future of computing?

[Aethec]

The problem is : Users actually like that. The majority, that is. Most people aren't tech-savvy and love having one "app store" where they can download what they want - they don't care about other ways of getting it, or censorship.

[kroozer]

I am concerned about the effect it may have on competition and free enterprise.

[Anomaly]

The problem is : Users actually like that. The majority, that is. Most people aren't tech-savvy and love having one "app store" where they can download what they want - they don't care about other ways of getting it, or censorship.

 

It's terrifying that we will be forced into a bad system of doing things by monkeys. It's very disturbing and it's only going to increase in pace with the popularity of the ipad.

[Andavari]

I don't know diddly about app stores however I'd think for them to survive they'd need some freeware in there. Some of the apps they've showed on the news which the news thought was "cool enough to report on" had me thinking why would someone buy that.

 

Problem is it's for devices that a bunch of people want. Now if some MAC OS forced end-users to buy all their software from some app store well perhaps Microsoft and Linux will see an influx of adopters, and perhaps shut up allot of Windows bashers/haters.

[Anomaly]

I don't know diddly about app stores however I'd think for them to survive they'd need some freeware in there. Some of the apps they've showed on the news which the news thought was "cool enough to report on" had me thinking why would someone buy that.

 

Problem is it's for devices that a bunch of people want. Now if some MAC OS forced end-users to buy all their software from some app store well perhaps Microsoft and Linux will see an influx of adopters, and perhaps shut up allot of Windows bashers/haters.

 

If Mac OS for desktops ever pulls this crap, and there is heavy talk in the Mac world that it's coming, I will dump my Macs immediately. I will decide what I put on my machines and where I get it not Uncle Steve.

 

I don' think you will see an influx of users to Linux or Windows because of this. I think you will see the opposite. Thats why Mac is so popular now. It's growing like wild fire and people seem to love being locked down in these OS that require an app store. This is what has me so concerned.

 

I would not be surprised to see windows follow this format if Mac continues to be hugely successful with it. I read an article that ASUS is releasing a tablet with a version of Windows 7 on it and it will have an app store so we will see where this leads but it's not good for anybody but idiots this trend to dumb computing.

[Andavari]

It's all about the money and nothing more, and as long as people are willing to buy those apps it will only grow.

 

The only positive I can see from those approved apps is them possibly being tested to not trash the device (if they test them that is). I can't begin to think of all the crappy software I've tried over the years and some of it has trashed Windows.

[Anomaly]

It's all about the money and nothing more, and as long as people are willing to buy those apps it will only grow.

 

The only positive I can see from those approved apps is them possibly being tested to not trash the device (if they test them that is). I can't begin to think of all the crappy software I've tried over the years and some of it has trashed Windows.

 

 

They could use a Linux method where they have a repository with tested apps that you know will work and not trash the system but your not locked into just using those apps you have the freedom to go elsewhere.

 

I agree about the money but thats the problem. There is no way Microsoft will sit this out and let Apple each some more of their lunch. I can see the day you run Windows and only programs from a Windows app store can go on the machine.

 

Maybe apple will get big enough to become an anti trust issue like MS and than they will get clamped down on. Many believe the only reason Opera Mini was allowed on the iphone app store was because Apple feared being sued by Opera Software. Since the acceptance of Opera Mini in the app store it has overtaken Mobile Safari in browser share on the iphone. Still you only have two choices really, Safari and Opera. Apple could have refused Opera it has rejected other apps for know other reason other than they felt like it.

[Andavari]

Apple could have refused Opera it has rejected other apps for know other reason other than they felt like it.

 

Makes me think of an analogy: No Coca-Cola allowed in the Pepsi store.

[Nergal]

Hurray for Palm WebOS which (though yes does have an official App Store) not only allows but encourages the Homebrew community and doesn't require rooting to have it done (AND also provides easy access to both web distributed and beta distributed software)

 

[Anomaly]

Hurray for Palm WebOS which (though yes does have an official App Store) not only allows but encourages the Homebrew community and doesn't require rooting to have it done (AND also provides easy access to both web distributed and beta distributed software)

 

 

Well I don't have a problem with that. As long as you are not locked into only getting apps from the app store.

[login123]

I am concerned about the effect it may have on competition and free enterprise.

 

Well, me too, sort of. But think about what has happened just for the windows OS. Over the years a solid ton of free applications have been developed for it. Might happen for the ipod or droid or whatever gadget becomes popular?

[Anomaly]

Well, me too, sort of. But think about what has happened just for the windows OS. Over the years a solid ton of free applications have been developed for it. Might happen for the ipod or droid or whatever gadget becomes popular?

 

I don't see your point. The app store concept is opposite of the way Windows does it. So if your happy with how Windows is doing it and the 'ton or free applications" that have been developed how could you think a closed system like app stores is good. I think your totally missing the point.The windows system you are so happy with is not an app store system or any where close to being one for that matter.

 

You mention the iPod. Well the iPod touch which is basically an iPhone without the phone part has been on the app store system since it came out. The only way to get anything on there is through iTunes and the app store. If you're an app developer you have to put your app in the app store and that means getting Apple's approval. If your app competes with an Apple app forget about getting it on there. Thats the whole problem with this. If the system wasn't closed you could make any app you want and anybody could use it without having to go through an app store and all the BS that goes with it. Make no mistake about it apps stores are not a good thing for the computer user. They are a money grab for the guys running them.

[login123]

@ anomaly: "I don't see your point."

 

I see that.

 

Windows (microsoft) didn't develop any of the apps I'm talking about. Other developers did because microsoft didn't. "Why" is open to speculation, but I agree w/ Andavari, money is the big motivator. A short list of examples is:

- CCleaner, by Piriform...because windows accumulates huge amounts of junk, hard to delete

- Unlocker by Collomb...because there is just too much stuff locked up in windows,

- Eraser, now by Heide...because windows doesn't really erase anything,

- Barts PE, by err ummm...Bart...developed in spite of microsoft by using a workaround

- Free AVs, Firewalls, anti malaware apps...because for 40 years microsoft didn't do it, (edit 3: more like 30 years)

- edit 1: Would be graceless if I failed to include all the work done by Andymanchesta fighting spyware...

- VLC media player, Mplayer, etc, because microsoft didn't do it,

- Functional, easy to use linux OSs...because non-tekkies like me look for alternatives,

- Virtual machines...same reason,

- Netscape...remember that legal fight?

- Firefox, et al...because IE has a fairly weak immune system and its a big target...

 

For most of the free apps in these examples, money was not the main motivator. Opinions vary as to what was, I like to think it was a generous urge to meet a "need".

 

The point is that the free apps for windows grew out of a widespread need. Widespread because windows is so pervasive, needed because windows has been largely unresponsive to things that users perceive as needs. Imho these are wants, but users perceive them as needs.

 

Soooo...if the systems that lock us in to app stores become "big" enough, that is pervasive and popular enough, maybe a similar phenomenon will occur...some generous soul will design free apps that work for them.

 

Until that happens, I only see two choices. Ya pays ya money and ya gets the song, or ya ignore'em and keep watching for the freebies. I don't hold out much hope for choice number two, tho, until the device is so "big" that lots of people want things for it. The iphone is getting there.

 

Disclaimer: All this is just my opinion, of course. Please be advised that I don't work for anybody you know, and don't sue Piriform. Sue me if you like, but you should know that last year 3 people stole my identity and they all gave it back and offered to help me out.

 

edit #2: To be fair about it, microsoft let this free app stuff happen...for the most part they didn't have to.

[Anomaly]

@ anomaly: "I don't see your point."

 

I see that.

 

Windows (microsoft) didn't develop any of the apps I'm talking about. Other developers did because microsoft didn't. "Why" is open to speculation, but I agree w/ Andavari, money is the big motivator. A short list of examples is:

- CCleaner, by Piriform...because windows accumulates huge amounts of junk, hard to delete

- Unlocker by Collomb...because there is just too much stuff locked up in windows,

- Eraser, now by Heide...because windows doesn't really erase anything,

- Barts PE, by err ummm...Bart...developed in spite of microsoft by using a workaround

- Free AVs, Firewalls, anti malaware apps...because for 40 years microsoft didn't do it,

- edit: Would be graceless if I failed to include all the work done by Andymanchesta fighting spyware...

- VLC media player, Mplayer, etc, because microsoft didn't do it,

- Functional, easy to use linux OSs...because non-tekkies like me look for alternatives,

- Virtual machines...same reason,

- Netscape...remember that legal fight?

- Firefox, et al...because IE has a fairly weak immune system and its a big target...

 

For most of the free apps in these examples, money was not the main motivator. Opinions vary as to what was, I like to think it was a generous urge to meet a "need".

 

The point is that the free apps for windows grew out of a widespread need. Widespread because windows is so pervasive, needed because windows has been largely unresponsive to things that users perceive as needs. Imho these are wants, but users perceive them as needs.

 

Soooo...if the systems that lock us in to app stores become "big" enough, that is pervasive and popular enough, maybe a similar phenomenon will occur...some generous soul will design free apps that work for them.

 

Until that happens, I only see two choices. Ya pays ya money and ya gets the song, or ya ignore'em and keep watching for the freebies. I don't hold out much hope for choice number two, tho, until the device is so "big" that lots of people want things for it. The iphone is getting there.

 

Disclaimer: All this is just my opinion, of course. Please be advised that I don't work for anybody you know, and don't sue Piriform. Sue me if you like, but you should know that last year 3 people stole my identity and they all gave it back and offered to help me out.

 

edit #2: To be fair about it, microsoft let this free app stuff happen...for the most part they didn't have to.

 

Do you think you would have many of the great apps you mentioned if MS had made Windows only able to install apps from an app store that MS controlled? Not on your life. They would have complete control over what gets on your machine and there would be many developer that simply wouldn't get their apps on the store. That would kill innovation not help it. Now a developer just makes an app and hosts it where ever he wants and you go download it and install. MS has no say. App stores and locked down systems kills that.

[DennisD]

Sue me if you like, but you should know that last year 3 people stole my identity and they all gave it back and offered to help me out.

 

 

 

 

Best one I've heard in ages!

[login123]

Glad you like it, DennisD. :-)

 

I'm getting beyond my expertise here, don't know a thing about app stores, but I do think that "apps" for these devices could become available for free if the demand is great enough.

 

Those examples are "apps" which do something the microsoft boys didn't really want done. They are benevolent softwares which came into being to meet a perceived need...maybe the same thing will happen if enough people want apps for their devices.

 

It's only ones and zeros, As marmite points out. A clever coder could build an "app" for a device whether the developer wanted them to or not. Read about Barts PE.

 

There are legal issues, though. If users sign an agreement saying they may only use the "app store", then they are probably bound by it. And internet thefts, even little ones, are major crimes in most countries. Not to mention unethical.

 

Soooo, don't know, its complicated. If Apple et. al. have actually locked down their devices (by law, not by software), then ya gotta decide if you're gonna use one.

 

I'm won't, not worth it for me right now.

 

Free enterprise at work.

[Mickey Way]

The most disturbing part is that the user seem to embrace this stupidity. It's unbelievable.

 

I see this every day. But the point you are missing is that these people are part of the human race that can't own anything that ISN'T the latest trend/fad/fashion, etc. Ipods especially are nothing more than a "label" to "fit-in" with the crowd. I have a $10 2GB off-brand MP3 player that sounds just as good as an Ipod, but try and convince one of the "fashion dictates I MUST own an Ipod" people to be happy with a player like mine. Their ego would not allow them to be seen in public with such a "vulgar" accessory like that.

 

I actually encountered a WalMart employee in the electronics department that falls into this group. I was looking for a pair of headphones, not earbuds. He said that he would like to have a pair because they are more comfortable, but it's just not the style everyone else has these days. Well, to each their own, but I'm not about to play that game. I'm after comfort.

 

The problem is : Users actually like that. The majority, that is. Most people aren't tech-savvy and love having one "app store" where they can download what they want - they don't care about other ways of getting it, or censorship.

 

This statement is true as well. Take a good look at some of these folks. I'd bet you could find a high number of them has never used a screwdriver. Someone at Apple has also seen this and has successfully found a way to exploit it. Good for them. (They aren't ever getting any of MY money.)

 

Bottom line: I don't think anyone here should panic about freeware disappearing anytime soon. The push for freeware and shareware these days is ENORMOUS.

[login123]

I had resolved to quit this thread before poor anomaly burst an gasket, but Mickey Way is spot on.

 

Ad agencies get paid tons of money to convince us that we have to have cool new stuff. And its our money, the money we paid for our device which has been taken out before taxes for advertising. The ads convince us to buy the device in question, giving more money to the company to spend for advertising which is designed to convince us...

 

Did you know that a Model A Ford, circa 1927, can get 40 miles to the gallon?

 

...ahh well.

[Anomaly]

I had resolved to quit this thread before poor anomaly burst an gasket, but Mickey Way is spot on.

 

Ad agencies get paid tons of money to convince us that we have to have cool new stuff. And its our money, the money we paid for our device which has been taken out before taxes for advertising. The ads convince us to buy the device in question, giving more money to the company to spend for advertising which is designed to convince us...

 

Did you know that a Model A Ford, circa 1927, can get 40 miles to the gallon?

 

...ahh well.

 

Ha ha I'm not going to burst a gasket. The bottom line is the app stores are not a good thing. It dumbs down computing, it takes away choice, it puts too much control into the hands of the company running the store and allows them to censor, it makes the OS closed since you can't decide where to get software for it and your locked into the apps store.

 

You want to see me burst a gasket? Just watch what happens if Apple decides that all programs must come from an app store on my desktop Mac. They do it now for the iPhone,iPad,and iPod Touch but not Mac OS X. If they do I will burst a gasket and some other things to.

[ishan_rulz]

That is why we are blessed with people like George Hotz. Look him up. I have a 64 GB iPod Touch, with *cough*. Sometimes, this is the way we have to go, when such restrictions are put.

 

EDIT: I need a 160 GB iPod Classic, my music doesn't seem to fit. :'(

[Mickey Way]

That is why we are blessed with people like George Hotz.

 

OUTSTANDING reference ishan rulz! I never heard of him before. I Googled and went for the Wiki ref;

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Hotz

 

It's people like George that guarantee Big Business will never have app-solute control!

[Anomaly]

That is why we are blessed with people like George Hotz. Look him up. I have a 64 GB iPod Touch, with *cough*. Sometimes, this is the way we have to go, when such restrictions are put.

 

EDIT: I need a 160 GB iPod Classic, my music doesn't seem to fit. :'(

 

Yes we need people like him but we shouldn't. There should be no need to hack your device that you paid for. The fact that it's necessary to do so just goes to prove my point about these stinking app stores.

 

By the way did you know you are basically breaking the ULA of Mac by hacking the iPhone,iPod,IPad, or any Mac device. The guys running Mac OS X on a Windows machine are breaking the law. Go for it I say. I love my Mac but I want to break it over Steve Jobs head.

[fireryone]

FYI: Windows Mobile does have an "App" store and its the junk called "Windows Marketplace" barely anything free and nothing I've seen worth paying for...

 

http://marketplace.windowsphone.com/

At least most of the obvious crap in the Apple iCrapStore is free...

 

In theory I like access to an app store (should contain apps known to work on your device, easier for newbie users to start trying stuff) for mobiles but not as an exclusive means of acquiring content.

[Anomaly]

FYI: Windows Mobile does have an "App" store and its the junk called "Windows Marketplace" barely anything free and nothing I've seen worth paying for...

 

http://marketplace.windowsphone.com/

At least most of the obvious crap in the Apple iCrapStore is free...

 

In theory I like access to an app store (should contain apps known to work on your device, easier for newbie users to start trying stuff) for mobiles but not as an exclusive means of acquiring content.

 

You are not locked into the Windows Mobile app store. It's there to use but you don't have to. Even Windows desktop has an app store. These are not the app stores I'm referring to. I'm complaining about the app stores like the Apple one through iTunes. It's the only way to get programs on your device unless you jail break the device.