Automatic Updates

[Canary]

I keep getting a message in my system tray telling me I need to install automatic updates.

 

I let the updates install but then get a message saying: "The following updates were not installed: Microsoft .NET Framework 1.1 Service Pack 1"

 

The next time I log on, I get prompted to install the update again, and then I get the same message. How can I stop this happening?

[spacejocky]

Have you tried installing a newer version of .net?

 

 

MSDN .net 3.x

 

 

It might work I dunno tho...

 

I am a newbie canary, it is just a thought. Further if there is a reason that you would want 1.x instead, could you let me know. I am learning here so treat this idiot with kid gloves....k?

 

Most likely you are looking at this and going OMG...kid gloves, Canary, kid gloves.

[Canary]

Have you tried installing a newer version of .net?

MSDN .net 3.x

It might work I dunno tho...

 

I am a newbie canary, it is just a thought. Further if there is a reason that you would want 1.x instead, could you let me know. I am learning here so treat this idiot with kid gloves....k?

 

Most likely you are looking at this and going OMG...kid gloves, Canary, kid gloves.

 

 

Not at all! I appreciate your help!

 

The point is, though, that I don't want that version of .net. It's just that my computer keeps telling me there is an update for me. It's not something I'm actively seeking.

[DennisD]

Hi guys, I'm not sure what your update problem is, but with regards to Microsofts .net platform, you can't install any of the versions on their own.

 

Each of the updates is dependent of the previous one being in place. I think the sequence is .net 1.1, then a 1.1 hotfix, .net 2 and then of course .net 3.

 

Do you have any .net installations at the moment? You'll find them in Start > control panel > add/remove programs.

 

Any info will help get to the root of your problem, although I learned myself recently, that you don't actually need .net at the moment, although you may do later on as more software and web sites use the .net programming platform.

 

Hope this helps.

[Canary]

I've got 2.0, 3.0 and 3.5 installed. But it keeps trying (and failing) to install 1.0 too.

[DennisD]

I've got 2.0, 3.0 and 3.5 installed. But it keeps trying (and failing) to install 1.0 too.

 

Hi Canary, I think that's where your problem lies. With having the others installed, you are being told you need the first one in the sequence.

 

I'm sorry I don't know enough technically to tell you the best next thing to do, but I have a feeling that you may need to uninstall the others to enable a clean install of .net.

 

Of course you may just need to uninstall the others, and leave .net alone until you need it.

 

Hang fire on doing anything at the moment, and we'll see if we can get you the best course of action.

[DennisD]

Hi Canary, after doing a bit of research, I think it's possible you may have a damaged version of .NET framework 1 or 1.1.

 

If you haven't already resolved the problem, can you look in start > my computer > C: > windows > microsoft.net > framework, and see what version folders you have, as in the screenshot.

 

 

As you can see, in my case, I have V1.0, V1.1, V2.0., although V1.0 does not show up in my add/remove programs.

 

If you already have V1.0 and V1.1, which are the updates you're being asked to install, and can't, you may have to do a repair, or uninstall with a tool specially made by MS for just such a problem.

 

If it was me, I'd start with the latest version and work my way down, binning them all via add/remove programs. A couple of months back I binned V3 without any problems.

 

Anyway, post back what version folders you actually have, and we'll take it from there.

 

And if any of you other guys have had experience of .NET framework installation problems, I'm not proud, feel free to jump in with any advice.

 

EDIT: Image hoster went bust. Replaced screenshot.

[Andavari]

I've had Automatic Updates act goofy before and tell me I need to install an update again that it had just installed after rebooting.

 

Sometimes trying the install from Microsoft Update will fix that issue, then again in some instances manually downloading and installing the file from Microsoft Downloads Center is necessary.

 

Edit: I've also found that sometimes temporarily disabling automatic updates while visiting Microsoft Update can be helpful.

 

Edit 2: I wonder if Dial-a-fix would fix this, never tried personally. I think it would be the Flush SoftwareDistribution button.

[CeeCee]

I have disabled automatic updating. It's not a big deal to turn the service on, go to Microsoft Update and install available updates. Especially when you need to install updates only once a month. Running update service between the monthly updates seems to be unnecessary and waste of resources.

[JDPower]

Hi guys, I'm not sure what your update problem is, but with regards to Microsofts .net platform, you can't install any of the versions on their own.

 

Each of the updates is dependent of the previous one being in place.

Thats what I thought (and I'm sure had read on MS), but according to their updated knowledgebase article that may not be true:

Each version of the .NET Framework can co-exist with the other versions on the computer. Most of the time, you can use the latest version of the .NET Framework to run applications that were created by using earlier versions of the .NET Framework.

Link: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/936705

 

Am I misinterpreting that? I may just try uninstalling .NET (only have .NET 2 installed) and installing only .NET 3 and see what happens.

[dkt]

Google has lots of entrys for this problem. A good one is:

http://blogs.msdn.com/astebner/archive/200.../15/468147.aspx

 

This is what I did last week to fix this problem on a computer with .net 1.1 and Microsoft .NET Framework 1.1 hotfix (KB886904). Turned of Auto update; removed 886904; went to ms download for .Net 1.1sp1: (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=8EC6FB8A-29EB-49CF-9DBC-1A0DC2273FF9&displaylang=en and installed it; did a mictosoft updat and was told that sp1 was still needed to be installed; did that and it worked.

 

Good luck, David

[Andavari]

Am I misinterpreting that? I may just try uninstalling .NET (only have .NET 2 installed) and installing only .NET 3 and see what happens.

I don't think that will work because some programs all of a sudden won't work if the version of .NET they need is missing.

 

I only state that because in the past when I uninstalled version 1 thinking at the time when version 2 was just released that it would cover everything from the previous version. I found out none of the programs I have installed that require .NET version 1 would run. It was a somewhat time consuming mistake based on my assumptions so now I have versions 1, 2, and 3 all installed.

 

Now if Microsoft has changed that behaviour, and allows only the newest version to be installed with full backwards compatibility I don't know, and really have no intentions of testing it out.

[JDPower]

Now if Microsoft has changed that behaviour, and allows only the newest version to be installed with full backwards compatibility I don't know

That's certainly how it sounds from the wording in that article. I don't have version 3 installed anyway, made a deliberate decision not to install it till something complained about it not being installed and it's not happened yet.

[Anthony A]

That's certainly how it sounds from the wording in that article. I don't have version 3 installed anyway, made a deliberate decision not to install it till something complained about it not being installed and it's not happened yet.

 

On one machine I don't have any of the versions installed and I have not run into a problem because of it yet.

[DennisD]

Done a lot of reading today, and we're all right in a way.

 

MS went to great lengths to ensure that all versions of .NET framework would work side by side with each other, although any one version does not need the previous version to function.

 

The problem you may come across if you only have one version installed is compatibility issues, as mentioned by Andavari above.

 

When you start researching this .NET framework, it is complicated beyond belief.

 

Note Uninstalling an older version of the Framework can affect existing applications that depended on that version and are not perfectly compatible with the newer version.

Link.: Old article, but still relevant.

 

 

As a part-time systems engineer, I was very concerned about possible negative effects of installing the .NET Framework 2.0 side-by-side with 1.1 on our Windows Server 2003 boxes that run things like SharePoint Portal Server, Windows SharePoint Services and Exchange 2003. I've searched and searched, and it seems like Microsoft is making little effort to document .NET Framework 2.0 compatibility with their server products.

 

It helps to understand how different types of executable code load the Framework. Unmanaged applications that host the Common Language Runtime (CLR), that is, non-.NET applications that manually load the CLR in order to run .NET code, always load the newest installed version of the .NET Framework by default. This behavior directly impacts SharePoint Portal Server, as one example, in a negative way. Some unmanaged executables in SPS host the CLR, so as soon as you install 2.0 and restart the SPS apps, they will load 2.0, not 1.1 as they were designed and tested against. BAD!

Link:

 

Traditionally, when a component or application is updated on a computer, the older version is removed and replaced with the newer version. If the new version is not compatible with the previous version, this usually breaks other applications that use the component or application. The .NET Framework provides support for side-by-side execution, which allows multiple versions of an assembly or application to be installed on the same computer at the same time. Because multiple versions can be installed simultaneously, managed applications can select which version to use without affecting applications that use a different version.

Link:

 

Side-by-Side Execution and Backwards Compatibility

On the .NET Framework and Visual Studio teams, the most important of our compatibility goals mandated that installing the .NET Framework should not break existing applications, regardless of the fact that most applications would be relying on side-by-side execution in this scenario and simply run against the version they were built on. Next in order of importance was that we wanted to ensure that applications would run properly if only the latest runtime were installed. There was a bit more leeway here because we expected side-by-side to be the typical configuration, but we also knew that plenty of version 1.1-based applications would be running on version 2.0.

 

Testing

For the releases of the .NET Framework 2.0 and Visual Studio 2005 we decided that we needed to be 100 percent compatible with the previous releases. We assembled a set of applications of various types, sizes, and complexity to test against the latest builds. On day one, build one, our pass percentage was very high but as check-ins were made the number started to drop.

Link:

 

 

And I think this final link will make make every thing crystal clear.

 

At the most basic level, .NET Framework 3.0 equals .NET Framework 2.0 plus a bunch of new DLLs. If you install .NET Framework 3.0 on a box that does not already have .NET Framework 2.0, the installer installs Framework 2.0. Therefore, if you already have .NET Framework 2.0 installed on a box, you should not be too concerned that installing 3.0 will break existing applications.

.NET Framework 1.1 and 2.0 and 3.0 Side-by-Side (SxS)

 

But how can all this info help our friend above there, who started this thread?

 

I would go with the Andavari's suggestion of going to the ms site and try to install from there.

 

Next option? If that didn't work, and it was my pc I would try to clear the lot out from add/remove programs, and then try a clean install from 1.0, 1.1 again.

 

 

EDIT: If anyone sees me getting involved in any future .NET post. Shoot me.

[JDPower]

Good stuff Dennis, saved some Googling

[Canary]

Hi Canary, after doing a bit of research, I think it's possible you may have a damaged version of .NET framework 1 or 1.1.

 

If you haven't already resolved the problem, can you look in start > my computer > C: > windows > microsoft.net > framework, and see what version folders you have, as in the screenshot.

 

 

As you can see, in my case, I have V1.0, V1.1, V2.0., although V1.0 does not show up in my add/remove programs.

 

If you already have V1.0 and V1.1, which are the updates you're being asked to install, and can't, you may have to do a repair, or uninstall with a tool specially made by MS for just such a problem.

 

If it was me, I'd start with the latest version and work my way down, binning them all via add/remove programs. A couple of months back I binned V3 without any problems.

 

Anyway, post back what version folders you actually have, and we'll take it from there.

 

And if any of you other guys have had experience of .NET framework installation problems, I'm not proud, feel free to jump in with any advice.

 

Hi Dennis, and thanks for your help so far. Thanks to everyone else, too.

 

The versions I have are 1.0.3705, 1.1.4322, 2.0.50727, 3.0 and 3.5.

 

Does that sound right?

[DennisD]

Hi Canary, yep that looks just right. I thought you'd have the .NET Framework V1.0 and V1.1 in there.

 

As you can see from this thread, problems with .NET framework are't the easiest things to pin down, but I've a couple of suggestions for you.

 

First:

 

When Microsoft Windows Installer is incorrectly registered in the Windows registry, the .NET Framework 1.1 Setup program cannot gain access to some Windows Installer components. This article discusses how to work around this issue by unregistering and then reregistering Windows Installer.

ARTICLE:

 

You'll see from this article that one of the reasons for problems when trying to install the .NET Framework 1.1 is a possible problem with Windows Installer. You can either use dial-a-fix, or do the following: (You can copy and paste the commands.)

 

1.Unregister Windows Installer:a. Click Start, and then click Run.b. In the Open box, type msiexec /unregister, and then click OK.

2.Reregister Windows Installer:a. Click Start, and then click Run.b. In the Open text box, type msiexec /regserver, and then click OK.

 

By making sure the Windows Installer is properly registered, we can discount that as being part of the problem.

 

Second:

 

Go to the MS download page, and download the following to your desktop, or to any folder you normally use for downloading files. As long as you can find it.

 

Microsoft .NET Framework 1.1 Service Pack 1 (SP1)

 

Installing off line IMHO, is more reliable than trying to do it online where your download has more chance of going wrong.

 

Next, just double click the installer package.

 

I think you may only need Service Pack 1 (SP1), but if you're asked to install either of the packages below, you can either do it with Microsoft Update, or download them from the links to manually install from your desktop/folder again.

 

Microsoft .NET Framework version 1.1 redistributable package

 

Microsoft .NET Framework 1.0 Redistributable package

 

If this doesn't solve the problem, we can try running "dial-a-fix", or uninstalling 1.1 from your pc. No worries.

 

Again, if anyone has any better ideas, please feel free to jump in.

[Andavari]

Installing off line IMHO, is more reliable than trying to do it online where your download has more chance of going wrong.

You can say that again! I don't remember what version of .NET I was installing earlier this year when reinstalling everything on the PC but the download/install from Microsoft Updates website wanted the disk with the source files - which of course I didn't have, so I had to download the actual setup file.

[Canary]

Hi Dennis, Andavari and everyone else,

 

It worked! I followed Dennis's advice as far as downloading Microsoft .NET Framework version 1.1 redistributable package, and then let the Automatic Updates program run its course once again. This time the Automatic Updates worked.

 

Thanks so much for all your help, as usual. I'd buy you all a pint if I could!

[DennisD]

Hi Canary, well done. I'm as pleased as you are that it worked.

 

And about that pint? A bottle of this will do....

 

 

Of course I'll share it with the others.