Dead 2.5 inch hard disk and spinrite?

Computer Help and Discussions Hardware
1

Hi all.

I really really need help here. i have this laptop with 750 gb hardisk in it. it started few days ago that acting strangely and wont let me go into windows 7. i booted into safe mode and try to copy my files out from the laptop. it was so slow that it was like 1mb per sec for copying files out consider i have about 350gb of photos and other stuff in it. i had 2 partition in it so i thought my hardisk was infected by virus so i was trying to format the hardisk with a clean installation of windows 7 again but it wont let me so i pulled 2.5 inches hardidsk out and plugged into as usb drive in my desktop. it can read the drive alright and i can see all my data inside but it wont let me copy everything out and the speed for copying was like 2mb per second as well. it will take me like may be 2 weeks to copy out all my files if no interruption from the harddisk stopping. actaully, i was trying to open some of the files inside but it wont let me either. also, my desktop windows keep complaining my 2.5 inches partition which the one without windows has error. so i deleted it in windows and recreated a partition alongside withthe other partition with data in it. for today, i was on an off trying to copy my files out from the 2.5 inches harddisk but without any success. i always was trying to use norton disk doctor to repair the disk but it wont work.

and tonight, the unthinkable happened. when i booted into windows and plug in the usb cable for my 2.5 inches harddisk. windows 7 can see the drive is there but when i click on it. it asked me to format the drive and i cannot go into the drive anymore so i cant even see any of my filesssssssss. it also gave me a message saying

h:\ IS NOT ACCESIBLE "DATA ERROR (CYCLE REDANDANCY CHECK)"

can anyone tell me that is my drive is completely dead and i can kiss it goodbye?? :(((((((( i found this link about Spinrite. Would Spinrite work for dead hardisk like mine? i dont want to fix the drive but i just want to copy out my data because it has many of my family photos from the past and i dont want to lose it. does anyone has any idea if any software i can recover my data at all?

please advise.

Thank you.

2

Hi, mktsoi. :)

You might be able to get your data back.

Running chkdsk might get things back into good enough shape to get the data copied.

Running chkdsk won't hurt anything, might help.

If it works, replace that disk, it is apparently failing.

Some information about chkdsk:

1. basic what is chkdsk

http://www.mytechgur...or-hard-drives/

2. How to with pictures

http://www.wikihow.c...ncy-Check-Error

3. Another how to with pictures

http://www.howtogeek...-windows-vista/

Now I have exhausted my meager knowledge of chkdsk.

Other members here know far more than I, so give them a chance to chime in.

Post back how it goes.

3

Hi, mktsoi. :)

You might be able to get your data back.

Running chkdsk might get things back into good enough shape to get the data copied.

Running chkdsk won't hurt anything, might help.

If it works, replace that disk, it is apparently failing.

Some information about chkdsk:

1. basic what is chkdsk

http://www.mytechgur...or-hard-drives/

2. How to with pictures

http://www.wikihow.c...ncy-Check-Error

3. Another how to with pictures

http://www.howtogeek...-windows-vista/

Now I have exhausted my meager knowledge of chkdsk.

Other members here know far more than I, so give them a chance to chime in.

Post back how it goes.

hi. thx for the reply. i tried the chkdsk command you mentioned. it wouldnt work. i could see my files earlier today but my computer now only shown the drive letters and would not even let me see whats inside the drive. also, everytime when i click on it. it will ask me to format it only. when i ran the chkdsk command on that drive. it said "chkdsk command is not avaliable for RAW drive", so does it mean that all my data is gone???

4

You may wish to ask your Spinrite questions directly to the software publisher that makes it, since it's a commercial/paid software.

-------------

Seeing your disk as RAW could easily be fixed in mere seconds in older XP systems via the bootable Windows Recovery Console, I don't know what you'd do in a newer Win7 OS though.

5

Pro recovery service. You have a hardware issue, not something that can be fixed by software utilities. I mean you're welcome to try and prove me wrong and all that, but you'd be making the problem worse.

After a pro recovery service gets your data back for you; you will then go out and purchase a replacement disk for the faulty drive, AND a 2nd disk on which to keep a 2nd copy. This 2nd disk is your backup for when your main working drive fails. Understand each and every HDD will fail, it's just a matter of time.

Added Comment:

I feel that the bulk of your data is intact. Especially the data you haven't touched via snake-oil software utilities. It's just inaccessible due to faulty mechs and 'tronics.

Added Comment:

SpinRite, HDD regenerator, DRevitalize, and their cousins are only good in one situation - for fixing an improperly written sector which is causing the internal firmware to get hung-up. This situation is most often instigated by an improper shutdown or power brownout. E.g. killing the power while the drive head is putting data down on the platter. Any other function or application of these tools for which they are marketed is snake oil. And SpinRite is crusty old man software, it don't work on no USB disks none! bbwwwhahahahaha!

6

+1 Keatah,

your drive is obviously failing, and in-between your postings, getting worse.

the more you play around with it, the more likely you are making things harder to recover.

it's time to hand it over to a data recovery mob - and have your cheque book handy !!!

if you have photos that don't live anywhere else AND you simply must get them back, it's time to pay for the privilege.

the upside of this expensive course of action is it makes people put more emphasis on how important a regular, reliable, proven backup process is.

I sympathise with you, there is no sicker feeling than losing data.

Computer Rule #1: Backup Now, Backup Often.

Computer Rule #2: All hard drives will die.

Computer Rule #3: See Computer Rule #1

Good luck.

7

Part of the success and advantage of using a data recovery pro is your ailing disk gets an accurate diagnosis. There is little guesswork involved. And when there is guesswork it is done in a safe and controlled manner.

This allows the correct tool and technique to be used straight away, thus further limiting exposing your data to the failing drive's antics. The pros do an analysis and apply the proper tool based on what they see.

The end user blindly throwing utilities and tools at the problem without knowing why is just asking for disaster! You'll know if you're doing this right or not. You either have complete and 100% total confidence, or you're just taking potshots saying this might work, or this might work. And most of all you find yourself hoping. Data recovery pros don't work that way.

8

A junior technician tried to repair a nearly new state-of-art 286 Desktop computer several decades ago.

It failed when lightening struck within half a mile of the customer's premises.

First he replaced some RAM and that made the screen usable,

and then he could boot into DOS with a 5.25" floppy Diskette.

Then he used Norton Tools to repair the HDD which contained expensive customised software that was unique to the customer.

Unfortunately Microsoft had stupidly decided that HDD configuration data should not be obtained from the first sector of the first track,

but from the CMOS RAM.

Unfortunately the lightening strike that destroyed the screen RAM also corrupted the contents of the CMOS RAM,

and Norton Tools read out the wrong values and reformatted the HDD with quantities of sectors per track and tracks per platter that the mechanism was not capable of.

The most expensive part of the repair was the recreation of heavily customised software.

A senior technician advised that Norton caused worse problems than it solved.

I do not know how Norton stacks up now.

I think the most important thing is to use the right tool for the job,

and to recognise that the wrong tool has the ability to make the situation worse,

and the right tool for the original problem may be unable to unscramble the mess that is made by using the wrong tool.

9

Absolutely. The right tool for the situation is critical. Especially in data recovery operations. If anyone hadn't noticed, there's a ton of information missing from the OP's description. And, yet, DIY solutions are being offered.

Can these questions be answered:

1- why is there a CRC error?

2- why is (was) the disk sending data at a such a slow rate initially?

3- why is the filesystem reporting RAW? What happened there?

10

Keatah i expect that the original poster has not given info on the 3 questions you ask because he doesn't know the answer to them.

Most people when this sort of thing happens do not have experience in this area of computer hardware work, neither do they have the cash to go to a specialised recover technician.

He is asking for solutions I believe other than paying out loads of cash. (he can correct me if I'm wrong)

If he wants to try other suggestions, and says so, then we can chip in with ideas. Otherwise the bottom line is he'll lose everything and may always wish he'd at least tried something.

11

edit: Ninja'ed by Hazelnut. :P

Hi, mktsoi. :)

Good information in this thread. A pro service is maybe the best solution.

Whatever else you do, from now on you'll make regular backups, eh?

Post back what you work out, if you have time.

If you use a pro service,

- shop around

- get a firm price first

- use one that will agree to charge only if they get the data back.

- If they don't agree to that, shop elswhere. It's your money and your hard drive.

As Alan_b pointed out, even the pros can can gum up a project pretty badly.

Keatah is one of those who knows "far more than I" so I would defer to his technical assessment, if maybe not his situational assessment.

As for the situation, I personally would not spend a lot of money to recover any HDD I have. If I couldn't do it myself it wouldn't happen...but then I keep everything backed up pretty well.

Having said that, I'll stand by my DIY solution.

From the first post it was apparent that

- mktsoi is, like me, not too tekkie

- the drive was dying if not dead (quite likely dead but not certain)

- the drive failure was getting worse, having gone from recognizeable to RAW.

- mktsoi had made a few recovery efforts which had likely changed some important aspects of the HDD, file system, etc,

- these would make data recovery more difficult

- data recovery without expensive hardware / software gadgets was not likely.

Soooo, chkdsk likely wouldn't hurt and might help.

I have done it in similar situations (not many), when working on a low budget project . . .ALL mine are low budget :lol: .

12

2- why is (was) the disk sending data at a such a slow rate initially?

3- why is the filesystem reporting RAW? What happened there?

#2 Can happen if a disk drive gets stuck in that dreaded PIO mode, it's rare for a hard disk to get in that mode but it can happen.

#3 Can happen rather easily if for instance using disk wiping/free space wiping software and someone forcefully stops it via Task Manager's 'End Process', hence the mentioning of Windows Recovery Console in my previous post.

Albeit with the slow rate and then going to RAW it could be a dying/dead hard disk.

13
#3 Can happen rather easily if for instance using disk wiping/free space wiping software and someone forcefully stops it via Task Manager's 'End Process', hence the mentioning of Windows Recovery Console in my previous post.

Well, that's an interesting tidbit. This a bit off topic...not much...

I have a 500 gb external USB drive that occassionally, not often, just won't show up properly in windows explorer.

When that happens, it shows as a drive letter, but does not display the Seagate icon, and if you check properties it shows as RAW.

I just safely remove it, unplug the power and let it stop spinning, then plug all back in, power plug first.

And shazam, there it is showing all OK.

It has done that since it was new, 4 or 5 years ago, and otherwise works perfectly.

My chief suspect is the firmware on the little circuit board, but really have no idea why it happens.

But that did cause me to get a backup drive for that backup drive which is a backup for the backup partition which backs up the data and system on my computer.

>>whew<< . . .where will it end?? :lol:

14

Hi guys

thx for all reply. my original idea is trying to do it myself before i go to the pro to give them all my cash! because i was reading around on the net and trying to find a cheaper solution myself. thats why i was asking if i can do any harm to just try to use software like Spinrite as if i do it myself, would this leave me no chance to go to the Pro if ......... now it comes down to the point that i think you guys were telling me that i could end up kill the drive all together if i do anything else (including Spinrite) to it.

i was asking about Spinrite cause it pops up quite abit in my search and i went to their customer testimonial page and check the comment. of course, those guys that could be telling people lie as well which i dont know and i could be really wrong about it. but anyway, i guess you guys giving me alot of info to think about anyway, the opinion, the more welcome. THX again guys!

15

Don't have experience with Spinrite.

Keatah's suggestion is probably best, a pro recovery service, if:

- you can afford it, and

- the data are worth it, and

- you can get assurances from the contractor you hire.

There is some snake oil in that arena also.

16

@Hazelnut: It's the trying other suggestions part that will raise the cost sky high. Especially indiscriminately, however benign the intentions. That's my only hang-up here. I've seen piles upon piles of disks that had bad hardware, and the customer run all kinds software.. Now instead of replacing a component and calling it a day, I had to spend time rebuilding the filesystem.

@login123: If I lost crap I downloaded from the internet I wouldn't care much. I certainly wouldn't pay money to get it back. In the case of the OP there's no backup. And 10 years of photos is worth something no doubt.

It's really a bad situation all around. All the cameras digital today. And unlike film and prints, digital data is more prone to loss and damage. A paper box is not likely to fail and erase all your negatives. A mechanical or SSD drive *IS* likely to blow up and take all your photos with it.

I personally believe that everyone that is using a digital camera needs to understand and take a course in backup operations and data archiving. Something geared toward the consumer, not necessarily professional in-depth. Something that accentuates the need of having two copies.

@mktsoi: If and when you hire a pro recovery service, just look around for one that has been in business for a long time. Some firms have been operating since the 1980's and are well respected. Don't go with a consulting service of any kind. Ever! I've seen them throw away customer parts when they can't fix something to hide their c**k-ups. Thus preventing future recovery by a reputable operation. Furthermore, they're the kind that will run utilities till the drive dies completely and now you're at a $5,000 pricetag. You might want to start with checking with the disk mfg themselves. They have partnerships with trustworthy firms. Well, I suggest you look around and report back what you decide.

I also suggest to people that can't afford this plan of action to do exactly that! Tape the disk to a gallon milk jug, and fill it with change during the upcoming year. When the jug is full you send it in. It will typically cover the cost as long as you don't use all pennies. Cut out the junk food, smoking, soda, coffee, alcohol, that sort of thing. And you'll save the necessary money in no time!

SpinRite, it hasn't been updated to new interface standards since 2004. While the principle of operation of disks hasn't changed since the 1950's, the interface and firmware has. SpinRite doesn't know how to work with the latest advancements. SpinRite was born out the 286 era when disks were not as self-healing as they are now.

It's interesting to note that newer disks monitor themselves and when they see weak sectors they re-write or re-map automatically, behind the scenes. SpinRite was relevant years ago, when the firmware and controller weren't as sophisticated.

It's not that using software tools is a bad thing, I use chkdisk all the time. In data recovery work it is important to select the correct tool. Everybody and their dog wants to make a buck and rack in the money, so therefore their tools and software are the right ones! This reasoning will kill your disk faster than you can drop it. This same thing applies to all these Speed-Up-My-PC suites.

A bit of trivia I like to tell people: A disk writes data in analog style. A disk's head reads data off the platters and generates heaps of errors and ambiguities and noise. The disk controller then re-assembles everything into what you call your data. It relies on a lot error checking and black magic.

17
I also suggest to people that can't afford this plan of action to do exactly that! Tape the disk to a gallon milk jug, and fill it with change during the upcoming year. When the jug is full you send it in. It will typically cover the cost as long as you don't use all pennies. Cut out the junk food, smoking, soda, coffee, alcohol, that sort of thing. And you'll save the necessary money in no time!

I cannot believe that you tell people this. How insulting to tell someone to give up things so they can pay you (cause I guess that is what you are suggesting).

Come on get real here, I know lots of techs who use a certain program that was on older versions of Hirens to pull the data off and most of the time it works.

You quite often seem to imply that you know and understand everything about this subject, however even you will accept that sometimes we have to think outside the box especially when large sums of money may be required,

18

Junkfood, soda, coffee, alcohol, smoking.. it's all bad for you anyways. Especially the quantities modern advertising wants you to consume.

I tell people to save this way so that they may do it in a stress free manner which is beneficial to them. Their data isn't going to suddenly time-expire. There is a huge range of prices out there, from the $300 area to $1,800.

I never peddle any services here or on any forum. Ever ever ever. I don't need to. It is against forum policy no doubt. And it is a personal code of conduct to not prey on a user down on their luck. So when I say to hire out a pro it isn't to pad my pockets. And if I believed the disk could be recovered by freely available utilities I'd say so. I just think this disk needs some attention paid to the hardware part.

But.. don't let me dampen anyone's enthusiasm for tearing into fixing this problem. That in and of itself will be a learning experience!

I'd much rather see the mom'n'pop individual user get rolling with a backup plan. And more and more of my computing advice focuses on that area. Try to avoid data recovery at all costs. I wonder if Piriform has ever thought about making a backup and filesync program? There's a few awesome freeware ones already. But the more options the better. Something that everyone can easily use?

I remember fixing my first HDD back in the 1980's, something for an Apple II. Sparing the boring irrelevant details of what was wrong and what was done to effect repair - I'll just comment it was about saving expensive hardware rather than the data on the disk. Back then we'd save the hardware. Today we dispose of the hardware and save the information.

It's (sadly) amusing to see people with failing storage devices all of a sudden take a razor-sharp keen interest in learning about how a disk works and how they can be fixed. And once the job is done they forget all about this. This forced learning and gung-ho temporary interest doesn't get anyone anywhere, except to pad the pockets of the pros once one is hired.

19

Meantime, if anyone wants to read about ambiguities and spinrite.. Look at the confusion presented here -- http://en.wikipedia...._version_out.3F -- seems no one can agree on how it works or what it does!

IMHO spinrite is less relevant today than it was back in the 286 era. Back then it was a valuable tool.

20

Mktsoi, how ya dooin' so far? :wacko::lol:

One of the issues hovering in the background here is this: The average person doesn't really know who to trust to fix a computer.

Finding a good data recovery person maybe isn't easy.

I've seen pro's gum the job up, and amateurs do it perfectly. And visa-versa.

So how can my uncle Henry know who to hire, he is XXX years old and forgets his teeth?

That's why i said that stuff in post 11. I would insist on those conditions, even though the pro would probably balk at some of them.

Some of the pros I actually know insist on a non-refundable "diagnostic fee" up front, and no ceiling on the final fee.

Some of them are my friends, but i don't actually hire them. No way will I agree up front to pay whatever you ask, whenever you finish.

Time is on your side. That is, unless you have lost the missle launch codes or something. Remember, if your pictures, etc, are still on the drive, they are safe and will keep, as long as you don't physically damage it. If they aren't, there is even less need to hurry.

What I do in a situation I can't fix myself is to start with someone I know in an IT section like at a school or government entity. Most all those have an IT section. If you know someone who works at one, that is a good place to start asking. Get all the recommendations you can, and eventually you can get some idea about who is competent and affordable.

All that is assuming that you can't or won't pay for the service.