CCleaner Pro "Lifetime" Licence - why has it expired?

CCleaner for Windows
21

@kb9gxk regarding the EULA on our website this was simply editied in 2016, if you would like to see the version prior to this and active at the time of your purchase please use a service such as the Way Back Machine to view the archived version of the webpage. For example, see the link below and refer to the section 5 "Term and Termination of Service".

https://web.archive.org/web/20150210075931/http://www.piriform.com:80/legal/software-license/ccleaner-professional

@Sonartech I am able to see the original email sent to you on the 27/03/14, however I am unable to see Expiry date listed as '-' on the email, can you direct message me an example or screenshot of this?

Due to privacy issues I am unable to go into detail about any of your cases on here. If you would like to do so please email our support team using premium_support@piriform.com

Thanks

22

I’m watching this thread with interest as I too have noticed that neither the receipt nor the terms & conditions seem to mention the license is only for 1 year & not a lifetime license. I too thought I was purchasing a lifetime license with updates & support. 

I have noticed that I can use all the features except automatic update but can manually update, imo this means the license is a lifetime one & in reality you’re just paying £15.00 approx for the auto update feature & another year of support - not worth the cost imo but that’s another story.

23

The point here is, even if the EULA states that it's not a lifetime purchase, the website itself should be worded in such a way that makes it apparent that we are subscribing, and not buying. This was not the case. Even now, go try to pay for the pro and you tell me how long a subscription is. You can't do it. All they did was add a mouse over that describes auto billing. THERE ISN'T EVEN A SUBSCRIPTION PERIOD. How long are you buying this for? 1 month? 1 year? It doesn't say it anywhere. It's a just a big damage control thread here, they try to tell us one thing, we prove them wrong, they have to keep saying the same thing over and over again.

24

To be fair to Piriform, I don't think this was a malicious miscalculation. I think Piriform's just trying to monetize their product by moving to a SaaS model, and that's going to burn existing customers. If you read the legal T&C for the period, it does make mention of a 1 year support period, but it also says some other stuff that is very misleading:

4. UPDATE SERVICES 

Subject to your payment of the applicable annual update fees and support fees for the relevant year, Piriform shall from time to time, via its website, make available new versions of the Product for you to download and use (the "Update Services").


5. TERM AND TERMINATION OF SERVICES


The Services shall start on the date on which Piriform sends a confirmatory email to you confirming full payment of the support and update fees and issuing your user account details, and shall continue for a period of 1 year or for such other period as we may agree with you in writing.


If you have purchased yearly subscriptions for the Support Services and/or Update Services, at the end of the year and any following year, the Support Services and/or Update Services shall renew automatically for another year. Piriform (or its authorized agents or sub-contractors) will give you an opportunity to cancel your subscription in advance of the renewal date and will inform you of the renewal fees. Unless you notify Piriform by email before renewal that you do not want to renew the Services.</span>

It says "...shall continue for a period of 1 year or for such other period as we may agree with you in writing". However, it also says "If you have purchased yearly subscriptions for the Support Services and/or Update Services, at the end of the year and any following year, the Support Services and/or Update Services shall renew automatically for another year", which we know never actually happened, nor were we ever given "...an opportunity to cancel your subscription in advance of the renewal date and will inform you of the renewal fees". So these terms & conditions are definitely sketchy and subject to some pretty wild interpretation. Piriform's telling us today that we ALL purchased a single yearly subscription for the product - so why were we never asked to renew after that first year, and why did my product continue to update normally for 6+ years AFTER I originally purchased it? Also, Why was Piriform sending out e-mails with still valid license keys & download links 4+ years after that original date of purchase, showing the license expiration date as "-"?

Regardless of what they say today or what was said at the time, there's still the matter that Cleverbridge never mentioned a subscription period, nor did the Piriform product web page at the time. (@Ben - You can wayback machine that one, too...). How could the payment processor skip an important detail like that?!! My guess is they didn't know about it, either.

Then there's the fact that the product pages didn't mention this "small" subscription detail anywhere in the purchase process, on my receipt or in my license key details. That's extremely bad form, but it translates to a 'bait-n-switch', regardless of how it's framed.

The $25 I paid in 2012 was well spent. I have enjoyed using these tools and I obviously was thankful enough to actually pay for the product. Still, though, the way this is shaking out sucks, since I'm still searching my inbox for ANYTHING from Piriform that ever mentioned expiration of my seemingly permanent license key.

If I was Piriform, I'd be damage-controlling the hell out of this, and at least offer a reasonable explanation, apology, discount or exception for those affected by this issue.

The silence, however, is deafening.

25
On ‎10‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 01:41, Ron The Bear said: 
<div class="ipsQuote_contents">
	<p>
		Thanks for this, I now have the latest version installed (although the 'Subscription Information' button still shows Product Status: Expired).
	</p>

	<p>
		A response from Cleverbridge, the vendor I purchased through, states: "<span style="color:rgb(43,46,47);font-size:10.5pt;">This does not look like its a subscription based product meaning it is a perpetual license (one time charge)."</span>


		 
	</p>
</div>

Ron, could you post the full e-mail from Cleverbridge for us to see? I'm &^%$# stunned that not even THEY would be aware that Piriform's purchase model is a subscription. It seems like everyone except Piriform is under the impression that this was never a subscription-based product - including the people that happily took our money.

26

I think I need to clarify a couple more things. As previously mentioned we currently and always have offered CCleaner under one license term (which is 1 year in length), we do however offer two options for renewal. These are Manual renewal whereby a customer can choose to pay and extend their license at their discresion. The second being the subscription renewal (we started selling these in Feb-18) whereby the customer is billed automatically and the license term extended automatically every year. They are reminded via email of this seven days prior to taking payment and given the option to cancel it.

Finally we are not pushing our exisitng customers onto subscription renewals, this is a decision they have to make themselves if they renew.

@Ron The Bear Could you please send me a copy of that Cleverbridge email

27

I received a reply from Piriform's support that I think explains what's happened here. In a nut shell, the purchase of Piriform by Avast! has caused this confusion and they are directly responsible for what has recently transpired and the lack of communication behind those changes.

First, some facts.

  1. Piriform never offered a perpetual lifetime license - the small, hard-to-find print in 2012 verifies this. It could best be described as a "single year, voluntary subscription model". If you chose not to re-subscribe, then Piriform didn't care, and they didn't enforce the expiration following that first year. Because of that and the way their program was written, none of us customers had any reason to suspect (or care) that we were using a subscription-based product (even if it was expired) since the product functioned just the same as it always had. The CCleaner software just called it a "License", expired or not. Further, Cleverbridge didn't make note of this, because again, NO ONE CARED and it wasn't enforced. It truly was up to you to re-new when you wanted to, IF you wanted to. It was so obscured in text that you specifically had to go digging in the EULA and legal terms to find subscription-related verbiage. Essentially, Piriform did a horrible job making sure everyone knew that the Pro+Plus bundle was a per-year, subscription-based product.
  2. When Avast! bought Piriform and associated programs last year, they noticed right away that people had been buying the paid licenses but the current paid customer base did not reflect that all those customers had been renewing their license each year. Therefore, they introduced the renewal notices for customers who had expired licenses to remind them that their license had expired. They did that without any communication to their customer base at all, and instead just snuck the code changes in with a regular release. We were just supposed to somehow "know" that the so-called "Lifetime Perpetual License"-ride was over, even if it had been working just fine for the last 6 years.
  3. Avast's official stance is that if a user is going to be using the professional features, they need to keep their licenses current, or revert back to the freeware version.
  4. Avast! obviously couldn't care less if you're upset by this or not, since they are notorious for being lousy communicators and terrible at customer service.

I'd like to thank John Kelly at Piriform (Avast?) support for bringing me up-to-speed on what affected all these changes - I truly appreciate your time and detail.

The rub, of course, is that we were all under the [mistaken] impression that we were getting perpetual freeware with our initial purchase. I thought so too, but that was just due to the fact that Piriform had no intention of enforcing their [hidden] subscription model, so they had no reason to make it painfully obvious like Avast! has recently decided to do.

So, hate Avast! for (A) Making these changes, (B) Not communicating the changes to anyone, (C) Setting themselves up for failure. They could have easily done the math here to see how this would look, but instead they just decided to Nuke it from outer space rather than find a better way to preserve Piriform's customer base.

I really, REALLY liked these tools and utilities, and I really wish Avast! hadn't meddled with this - especially if this is indicative of how they'll handle problems in the future.

For what it's worth, if Piriform has asked me to re-up, I would have. If Avast! asks me, well, I think we all know what MY answer would be at this point...

28

I just registered to comment in this thread... I feel a bit cheated given the free app has been great, but the only feature I wanted was automatic updates so Í wouldn't have to deal with annoying prompts (and I doubted how much those updates actually improved the utility of the app). Now after a year it's asking me to pay up again... it's feels like I thought I was helping a good developer who had made decent software for free and sold a perpetual "pro" version for a reasonable price... only to find out it's anything but. Time to decide between going back to free or just uninstalling.

29
On 09/11/2018 at 12:20, Sonartech said: 
<div class="ipsQuote_contents">
	<p>
		Ron, could you post the full e-mail from Cleverbridge for us to see?  I'm &amp;^%$# stunned that not even THEY would be aware that Piriform's purchase model is a subscription.  It seems like everyone <em>except</em> Piriform is under the impression that this was never a subscription-based product - including the people that happily took our money.
	</p>
</div>

Hi Ron, 

Thanks for writing in.   I would be more than happy to help you out with this inquiry.




Not sure why you are receiving those notifications.  This does not look like its a subscription based product meaning it is a perpetual license (one time charge).




I refreshed your download link, giving you two weeks to download your CCleaner Professional Plus when it’s convenient for you. You’ll find the download link and all the other order information by clicking HERE [link removed].




You’ll also find information on how to get in touch with Piriform in case you have any questions about how to install or use your product or service, or if the key is shown as invalid.




Please let us know if there’s anything else we can do for you, and thanks for contacting cleverbridge!</span></em>

Sincerely,

DeMarlo B.

cleverbridge Customer Support

-- 

cleverbridge AG, Cologne


Management: Craig Vodnik, Martin Trzaskalik, Reinhard Wille


Supervisory Board: Dr. Michael Inhester (Chairman)


Registration: HRB 58900 Commercial Register - Local Court of Cologne</span></em>

30

Yikes, so that confirms that even Piriform's Payment Processor has no clue this was subscription-based product, so it ain't just us! O.o

I guess they're guilty of not reading the Software T&C's, too. @Ben Piriform - Regardless of policies old or new, the fact remains that it would appear the vast majority of your [paying] customers weren't aware that this is a yearly subscription kind of thing - and neither is your payment processor. If you didn't even tell THEM the payment model for this software, how could you possibly expect us to have known that, since it hasn't been enforced for the past 6+ years?

Sorry, I'm not going to beat myself up for this one anymore...

31

Pity that when Avast aquired Piriform and noticed this anomaly, that they didn't just give 'grandfathered in rights' to Pro users before the acquisition date.

32

Sadly I just uninstalled CCleaner Pro. Didn't feel the need to keep it on here anymore.

33
On 10/5/2018 at 09:47, Nergal said: 
<div class="ipsQuote_contents">
	<p>
		Believe me i'm not wrong, as I said i've been a mod here much longer than Pro has been out.  It has always been a year for the two things I mentioned.  The rest works as it did when you paid for it.  I'm not sure why you have so much anger about losing auto update and priority support.
	</p>
</div>

duh...angry because it had one price tag on it....just like buying a shirt. You don't pay for the shirt every year. Do you?

One price UNLESS it specifically says the 'price for a year is, etc."

34

I just signed up for a forum account to say this one thing.

This bait and switch is bullcrap. I have used CCleaner since its launch and became a pro user 3 years ago in early 2015. NO WAY IN HELL was i ever told about having to renew. This is pure nonsense.

I am so annoyed with this new popup that says I am expired all of a sudden 3 years later. So annoyed i will just use another tool like a lot of people will probably do until avast gets its head out of its but and fixes piriform's products.

Its a wonder company's don't look to Amazon for example for success. The customer comes first no matter what!

35
On 11/12/2018 at 22:17, hazelnut said: 
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	<p>
		Pity that when Avast aquired Piriform and noticed this anomaly, that they didn't just give 'grandfathered in rights' to Pro users before the acquisition date.
	</p>
</div>

^ this is what i was trying to say. And this is comming from a moderator! Someone DM me when its resolved. i found malwarebytes has a nifty cleanup feature very simaler to ccleaner but a little less thorough.

36

Before I paid for this product back in 2015, I searched high and low and could not find any reference to a yearly subscription. I only paid because I thought it was worth making a contribution to a well-respected program that was for the better part, free. Auto update does not interest me but support would be nice. If it had of been advertised as a yearly subscription, I would not have been interested. Since the Avast takeover, we have had last year's hacking debacle, unwanted cookie setting and now this. As far as I'm concerned, Piriform's reputation has gone from a rooster to a feather duster. I will never again use anything remotely related to Avast.

37
2 hours ago, Eagle Beak said: 
<div class="ipsQuote_contents">
	<p>
		Before I paid for this product back in 2015, I searched high and low and could not find any reference to a yearly subscription. I only paid because I thought it was worth making a contribution to a well-respected program that was for the better part, free. Auto update does not interest me but support would be nice. If it had of been advertised as a yearly subscription, I would not have been interested.
	</p>
</div>

In the same boat. I'm philosophically opposed to ongoing payments and don't use any software that requires them. Have paid the one-off lifetime subscription fee for things like Plex and Roon.

I pay, I own.

38

As disappointing as this is, there are still three facts here that we shouldn't forget. I also paid for what I thought was a 1-time license fee, so don't think for one second I condone Avast!'s behavior here.

  1. There was never a lifetime license made available by Piriform. They simply chose not to enforce the yearly renewal fee, either through nag mail or through software (that has perpetually said "licensed" instead of "Subscription Information" until recently). The Wayback machine confirms this, but you did have to dig through and read the legalese to find it - but it was there to find. None of us (including myself) actually confirmed this was a lifetime license when we made our purchase, and none of us (including myself) asked Piriform about the discrepancy. Piriform just didn't enforce their own EULA, nor did they choose to remind people that their "1 year subscription had ended" on the web site, or in the program itself, or any other place beyond the EULA. The lack of prominently-placed subscription detail both on the web site, within the program itself and on the payment details page led us all to believe this was a perpetual license fee.
  2. Cleverbridge (Piriform's Payment Processor) wasn't even aware that this was a subscription product. This is most damning, in my opinion, and the reason that Avast! should at least make SOME effort to recognize this as the massive communication's mistake it has been and offer some sort of recompense. At the same time, I'm delighted that I have been able to use CCleaner as a paying "subscriber" without any nags for the past 6 years - and if Piriform had told me at the time that I was paying $25 for a 6 year subscription instead of 1 year, I would have still made the purchase and been completely happy with doing so.
  3. "Avast! noticed right away that people had been buying the paid licenses but the current paid customer base did not reflect that all those customers had been renewing. Therefore, they introduced the renewal notices for customers who had expired licenses to remind them that their license had expired. Avast!'s official stance is that if a user is going to be using the professional features, they need to keep their licenses current. Otherwise, they can the free software." That's from Piriform's Professional Tech Support.

So, yeah, this sucks, but it's ultimately due to poor communications and Piriform's choice to not enforce their own EULA. That's really all this boils down to. When Avast! took over, they modified the subscription-enforcement policy and decided to actually enforce the EULA (that we had all been taking for granted) and add software nags.

As I said, I think Avast! should damage-control this. At the same time, everyone who paid that $25 for what they thought was a one-time fee [and didn't bother to read the EULA and ask about the 1-year subscription details mentioned therein] should be quite happy that they've managed to get (in some cases) 6+ years out of a 1-year subscription fee. I know I am, and I focus on this fact to remind me that I probably should have a closer look at EULA's in the future. I'm only annoyed at Piriform for not being perfectly clear about the subscription fee up-front, but I'm pissed-off at Avast! for springing this on us 6+ years after it happened. Still, though, the fact that even Cleverbridge didn't know the terms of the EULA and wasn't asked to note this purchase as a 1-year subscription anywhere in the payment process is still the elephant in the room that Avast! needs to deal with.

39

Before I paid for this product back in 2015, I searched high and low and could not find any reference to a yearly subscription. I only paid because I thought it was worth making a contribution to a well-respected program that was for the better part, free. Auto update does not interest me but support would be nice. If it had of been advertised as a yearly subscription, I would not have been interested. Since the Avast takeover, we have had last year's hacking debacle, unwanted cookie setting and now this. As far as I'm concerned, Piriform's reputation has gone from a rooster to a feather duster. I will never again use anything remotely related to Avast. Any details as to the term of the licence and what it costs should be in bold print, clearly displayed in both the web page and the Clever Bridge payment contract. Not hidden away in the fine print. Failure to do so is blatant false advertising by omission.

40

I'm loving how they will give you a 50% discount on Pro for Cyber Monday but they marked it up so high that it's still $19.95. I'm about to uninstall my free copy. These people have no ethics.